At the recommendation of a commenter Davie B, I am trying a couple of free bankroll poker sites.

• VC Poker - Free $35
• Pitbull poker - Free $10

I’ll let you know how it goes…

BadBeats had some great poker thoughts for me as I was considering quitting poker for good… Since he took such efforts to write these, I wanted to repond individually to each item.

Yes, I have thought this multiple times along the way. I have 2 thoughts for you.

1) If you just want to win money, play the short stack strategy. I wouldn’t. Play a real strategy so that you can learn and get better. Short stack strategy teaches you very little except patience and pre-flop play. I bet pre-flop play isn’t your game’s weakness. The best players win post-flop.

You’re absolutely right…

2) Decide how much money you are willing to spend to get a poker education. Let’s say $300-400. You can afford that, right? Go out there and mix it up at the low stakes. Try different “moves” and see what works. Call down hands occasionally just to see what the other guy had (calls you won’t make in the future, but you make now for your own education). At this point, you are a beginner and the only way to get better is to play. For now, expect playing to cost you money and you won’t be disappointed.

Well, I agree that some money needs to be spent on a “Poker Education”, however, as I stated in a previous post, I don’t know that playing low stakes will teach me what I need to continue. The game is so different when you move to higher stakes that playing these micro stakes is almost like playing for play money. I agree that you have to do it for some time, but then you need to move on or you’re just hurting your progress.

3) Look at the low stakes as driver’s education. Driving around in parking lots with your mom wasn’t really driving and it wasn’t what you wanted to do. But if you want to get your driver’s license, you have to take a driver’s education course. In this case, to get your driver’s license to drive at the higher stakes, you have to win enough at the lower stakes to pay for the higher stakes.

Well, I would argue that my poker education money would be better spent by losing it at higher stakes than playing lower stakes until I win enough “to pay for the higher stakes”. Again, this is because the game is so dramatically different that winning at low stakes doesn’t really prepare you for the next level after you’ve gotten past the basics.

4) Luck is a bigger part of poker than most “sports”, but most competitions have a lot of luck. Tiger doesn’t win every golf tournament, but he’s competitive in most. Sometimes the wind gets him or the sun dries out a green or someone stepped in the path of his ball on the green and altered it just enough to throw his ball off the right line. Phil Hellmuth, Mike Matusow and Gus Hansen all made it really deep in the main event this year despite the huge field and 7 of the 9 players at the final table play professionally. There’s some luck, but the best players are at a lot of final tables.

Yeah… I know we see lots of the same guys at the end, and that definitely means that skill and experience has something to do with it. I just need to be reminded every now and again

5) The bad news is that it is totally possible that you or I won’t ever be very good. We might never be good enough to do anything but beat the lowest stakes games. And I agree that just being able to win $45 at most per 4-hour session isn’t really worth it. But, I don’t think we have enough information to make any kind of judgment. What have we played? 10,000 hands in 6 months? How many of those were played since you fully grasped the importance of position? How many since you added 3-betting to your arsenal? How many since you figured out appropriate bet-sizing? How many since you found X leak in your game? Your game is probably changing weekly right now in big ways. We need enough hands where we’re firing at the top of our game and still losing to know that we suck. Right?

I’m glad your 2 thoughts turned to 5 because this 5th comment had the biggest impact. Let’s take it in steps. First, “it is totally possible that you or I won’t ever be very good”. That’s true, and it’s because of that possibility that I want to take decisive action.

Either I can be great and I keep pushing, or I can’t and I quit now. I don’t have much time for hobbies so this is very much a cut and dry decision for me. Although I know that I’ll never be able to stop playing entirely (this game is just too much fun), I will be able to release the notion that I’m going to make lots of money and thus, stop investing so much time into it.

Next, “I don’t think we have enough information to make any kind of judgment.” I’m going to take your word on this. I don’t really know how long is appropriate to make a judgement. A year? Two years? When do you say enough is enough?

Last, and most importantly, “How many of those were played since you fully grasped the importance of position? How many since you added 3-betting to your arsenal? How many since you figured out appropriate bet-sizing? How many since you found X leak in your game?” This was the clincher comment for me. I thought about this for days. I mean, I just learned about the importance of position and I’m discovering leaks pretty regularly.

“Your game is probably changing weekly right now in big ways. We need enough hands where we’re firing at the top of our game and still losing to know that we suck. Right?” At the end of the day- I do have a lot to learn. I’m still trying to ”move up or bust”, but I think I’ll give it a few more months before I seriously consider quitting again…

Again, thanks for taking the time to talk me off the ledge

I was really surprised by the encouraging comments I got after my last two posts,

• Seriously Considering Quitting, and
• Still Around

It’s nice to know that others are out there doing the same thing and pressing through. Along with the encouragement came some great advice as well, which was even more appreciated. I am going to respond to some comments specifically in later posts, but I just wanted to thank everyone that took the time to say something. If I ever make it to the big time, I won’t forget you guys

I’ve won over $110 during my last two sessions. This is not a lot of money, but considering I was down to my last $20, it’s fairly significant for me. What’s even better is that I feel like I won because I played well and not because I got lucky like some previous wins.

I’m really trying to come to grips with the variability of poker, but it’s still tough. I’m still not sure how long I’ll be doing this.

You finished the tournament in 11th place.
A $93.12 award has been credited to your Real Money account.

Wow. I got a much needed (emotionally as well as fiscally) win tonight. Buy-In: $10.00/$1.00, 582 players. I placed 11th and scored the biggest win of my career (If I can call it that ).

I played really solidly so it’s a win I am particularly proud of.

Well, I’m still playing.

I did a few “full bankroll buy-ins” with the intention that if I lost, then this poker dream was never meant to be. Lucky (or unlucky) for me, I didn’t lose. So here I am.

After losing like seven 18 player $10 SnG’s in a row, I placed at a 45 player $10 Sng. Then I placed at a big (1,700 people I think) $2.20 tourney. Then I decided to take Choday’s advice and play shortstack strategy at NL25 which worked out pretty well (usually does in fact- I just get bored of it…)

So here is my current dillemma with poker (not that you care, but for recordkeeping purposes):

I feel like there’s too much luck involved. Is it gambling– is it not gambling? I don’t know. But I do know that the better players don’t always win. And luck is almost ALWAYS a significant factor in large tourneys. Now I know the idea is that skill and strategy win in the long run, but I don’t know if I’m 100% sold on that idea.

Also, I need to get better at higher stakes. I’m sick of playing for a few bucks here and there. Sure, I can win $1 and $2 tourneys all day- but that doesn’t make enough money to make it worth my time. I don’t need to make a killing- just enough so that it’s not completely embarrassing. How can I get excited about placing first in a tourney when the prize is $7 and I’ve been playing for 90 minutes?! If I’m going to continue to take this seriously, I decided I want to make at least $20 an hour.

Maybe I need to play more tables at a time or something in order for this to work, but I’m not particularly good at that either..

Of course, the root of all of this is that I still suck and playing for 6 months isn’t long enough to really know what I’m doing, but I’m allowed to rant, right?

For the first time since I started, I am seriously considering quitting. I just don’t have the patience to keep playing for hours just to win a couple of bucks- and I can’t seem to win a game at higher stakes. Does anyone else run into these issues?

I mean, if I’m going to play for 2 hours, I want to make at least $25. If I play at the micro stakes, I make maybe $4. If I play higher stakes, I can’t win at all. I like to play for fun, but I just can’t justify spending 10 hours a week with nothing to show for it.

I suppose if I actually do become a great poker player one day, I will look back at this post and laugh at how dumb I was (am) - but right now, I’m thinking of just throwing in the towel.

I’m not going to track my tourney losses after this point. It’s like pouring salt on a wound. I have about a $60 bankroll and I’m just going to play until I either triple my stack or lose it all.

So… I’ve spent $66 on entry fees. First place is something like $72 so even if I place first at the next one, I’m still not breaking even. There was a guy at the table this time who just massacred every hand I played.

My 99 vs his AA. My JT vs his QT. My 66 vs his 22 (flop came out 922 to give him quads). I saw him do this to several other players as well. I don’t know- he was on fire. Total jerk too. I hate that type- Winning Jerks.

Anyway, I’m getting worried. Worried that maybe I’m an idiot. I really enjoy poker, but I’m worried I’ll never be good at it.

This is getting depressing. I decided to take a chance on this one and went all in Pre-Flop with AK- caller had 99. Busted 17th.

This one sucks. I played this one fairly well- made it to the final table with a decent chip stack, got all my chips in with my opponent dominated and still lost. Flop came 89T, I went all-in with AT, caller had KT. Of course, the turn was a K and I’m busted in 8th (again…)

I guess a better player would have had a bigger chip stack.

From this, I’ve decided to make a serious run at understanding variance. It’s something I’ve heard about before, but I didn’t really spend much time looking into it. Here are some links in case you are in the same position:

• Variance in Poker Gaming
• Poker Variance
• 10 Things it Took [some guy] a While to Learn, pt 10: Variance

I’ve got a good feeling about this one! (Not really, but I’m trying to think positive…)