I’m been coming across some amazing beats lately. I know it’s part of the game and all, but it’s just really outside of the realm of realistic. I know this sounds like the ramblings of a loser, but I just can’t help it the way some of these hands have fallen.
Anyway, while doing some searching, I came across the idea that the Full Tilt card shuffling algorithm may not be quite a random as we think. There’s some people that think perhaps they skew their algorithm to create more ‘exciting’ play by hitting more big hands. I even found a weird post about a university study being conducted on the topic (which I was totally unable to verify- especially since it’s an unnamed university)
I was also pretty excited (in my witchhunt-like state of mind) to come across this blog full of screen shots that verify the lunacy of the situation. I’m going to start posting some of my recent screencaps of unbelievable hands as well and maybe we’ll find that there’s something behind this. How crazy would that be?
I’ve had some crazy times with online poker, back when I was playing Sit ‘n Go’s exclusively, I almost gave up on online poker altogether.
Since then, I’ still occassionally bump into people in games who bemoan how unlucky they are etc, or call Poker Stars river stars for instance, my first impression is its just a load of crap, probably to ease a loosing players ego and nothing more.
In a game like poker, lots of things can happen, and that scope includes lots of very unpredictable outcomes, even very rare ones. yesterday someone made a full house on the river, the same time someone made a royal flush, it certainly doesn’t happen every day, but I think its a little paranoid to suggest there is something wrong, just because we’ve seen something unusual.
Keep up the grind xxx
Thanks for the link brother. Yeah the beats are still happening. Hey, when that class action lawsuit hits my beats will be documented. LOL
I’ve been analyzing this more and more lately and I think maybe (just maybe) it isn’t rigged. I just think that, for some reason, FullTilt is full of chasers. Somehow, the site seems to be populated with people that will chase with anything. It is almost like people would rather make a big win from time-to-time and lose tons of small hands than make an actual profit.
In the end, this is a good thing for the good poker player. We need to adjust our strategy (everywhere, but especially at FullTilt). We need to punish chasers and punish them HARD. Since they are so prone to chasing, we need to charge them a large toll. They will pay it.
When you have the nut flush and they have two pair, bet that out and get value for it. You’ll lose occasionally when they get the full house, so get paid well every time they don’t get the full house. If you stack every sucker who has a set or two pair when you have the nut flush or straight and then get stacked once because someone catches the miracle river, it doesn’t hurt so bad.
Our mutual friend, brooklyn bum, has been commenting about it a lot lately. When you have a hand, bet it out and get paid for it. People will call with lesser hands.
Not too long ago I was playing $1/2 live and held K K. I raised pre-flop $10 and got a caller. The flop came two low spades, everything undercards to my kings and I bet almost the size of the pot, he called. The turn came a non-spade and still no ace and I bet out around 2/3 the pot and got called. The river brought a spade and I just knew he had caught his flush so I checked and he bet out the pot and I called to see it. He flipped As Qs and had the nut flush (and nothing else). I lost about $150 on the hand. It felt crappy. I shouldn’t have made the river call, that was my main mistake. But here’s the moral of the story: about 80% of the time I make $75 on that hand because he misses the river (and folds to any bet); 15% of the time I lose $75 (because he hits the river and I don’t call); 5% of the time I lose $150 (because he hits and I do call to make sure I keep the bluffers honest). If me and Howard (that was the name of my opponent) play that hand 100 times the same way (and this is the important part), I make +$4125 ($75*80 – ($75*15) – ($150*5)). I can focus on this time, where it all went wrong, or I can just keep making the right decision over and over and reap the rewards. I’ll take the rewards.
[...] Filed under: Bad Beat, Losing, Poker — badbeats @ 7:48 am So yesterday I commented on another blog about how I don’t think FullTilt is rigged (it might still be waiting for [...]
@badbeats- didn’t see this comment until today so the moderation was not intentional
I don’t know what to believe anymore. Whether by design or by accident, I don’t think that the algorithm at Full Tilt matches what you see at real poker tables. The percentages just don’t add up.
Is anyone really investigating this? Does it even matter?
Full Tilt advertises having the most exciting online poker you can find anywhere. I think their algorithm ensures this. But I also think you can respond to it intelligently by playing with an awareness of the sorts of things the algorithm does. For instance, if you have jacks on FTP, somebody else probably has aces, so be expecting something like that.
i play fulltilt quite often and i would have to agree with Badbeats “’been analyzing this more and more lately and I think maybe (just maybe) it isn’t rigged. I just think that, for some reason, FullTilt is full of chasers.”
i dont think its rigged, when you play higher stakes, you will come across better players and less chasers.(most of the time)
playing live poker some nights are the same, just cant buy a win
I’ve never been a big winning online poker player but never have I lost as quickly as I did at FullTiltPoker. In fact I lost in the same ways you define here, I played hands correctly and those who would run desperately for the only few cards that could same them in fact HIT THEM CARDS.
This did not happen just a few times, it happened over and over again. It has me wondering what is wrong with their algorithm as it seems to be flawed.
Never did I see so many unbelievable hands in such short amout of time and they were mostly against me which makes me wonder if they favorize certain players or if they even perhaps run bots who ensures them some of the money stays at full tilt poker.
I make a living from programming and I can ensure you there is nothing truly random about their algorithm.
Their are many folk out there arguing about if online poker is rigged or not…I wold like to help put this to rest by stating that it is rigged in many different ways. i helped write some of the software for tiltware LLC…while working on the fulltilt site some of the other programmers and i were asked to install programming into the software that would recognize certain players and provide them with unbeatable hands. we were also asked to develope software that would provide what they called the”maximum oppurtunity to bet” which meant that the deals are rigged to deal out alot of good starting hands to alot of players so that the most betting possible would take place on every deal. The deal would then provide a monster flop in which atleast two players would be all in before the river.(ever wonder why nobody ever misses the flop online…because then no one would bet and that is not what fulltilt wants) This keeps the tourneys fast paced and exciting which players love. Fulltilt loves this too, the faster you lose the faster they can make more money off you by having enter another tourney.
There is also another way fulltilt cheats you out of cash with their own personal players. These players are called house players and are fulltime employees of the Fulltilt compnay. If you check some names and their online wins vs. loss records you will often find them with records that are simply unreal. I have seen some of these folks who win over 50 straight sessions without a loss…how can this be possible unless they are working on the inside. They come and go and change their names often but they play in the site with the full adavantage of being able to see all the cards in play and in the deck.
Another programming trick we wrote into the software at fulltilt is the levels trick…this trick takes place when a tournament has been running after the first break. The computer recognizes the different size of each players chip stack and begins to deal out hands in which a small stack will shove all in and a large stack will have a better hand to call with. Have you ever wondered why you get pocekt QQs with 1500 chips and the guy next to you gets pockets KKs and he has 10,000 chips? The answer is simple the site is programmed to get you to play as much as possible. So we programmed the site to eliminate the small stack as quickly as possible so that they can go enter another tourney asap. The site is even prgrammed to adjust the flop for big stacks so that even if the big stack calls your hand with nothing he will end up beating your good made hand by the river. Often times the site will deal you back to back hands with the same cards but maybe different colors or suits..this “glitch” is a sign that the computer is adjusting the shuffle to start elimnting small stacks and allow the tourney to finish quicker.
The sooner a tournament is done the faster fulltilt can have you back at another table spending more money…it is to this sites best interested to eliminate you from tables as fast as possbile. There is no one to regulate how the company manipulates the software to thier own advantage. There is no one to monitor how the company pays out its players and employees. Simply put, giving some offshore account your hard earned cash is simply insane. Thinking that these people arent cheating you out of your money is crazy, the site has many layers of hidden programming all set up to take full adavantage of all types of players from novice to expert.
the main reason i wrote this blog is to expose the fraud that takes place at online gaming site known as Fulltilt poker i was fired three months ago from the company that helped write the software..yes i am bitter and mad but i do fell everyone so know how bad fulltilt is and that is a site built by THIEVES!!
[...] See his full comment here- let me know what you think? [...]
Its rigged. I play there for free, but will never put money into it again. I will stick to the casinos for that… I am up lifetime at the casinos around here, 25K in 3.4 years. I played at fulltilt got my bankroll to about 2K. Then went to -1K in a span of about 4 months with a string of completly unlogical set up bad beats… What do you expect? They advertise the hands to be “The most exciting”, They don’t pay out bad beats,.. its rigged. They got my 1k and they can choke on it. I wont put money in there again. Im sure its different for the high rollers in the big torneys, cuz they wouldn’t play there if they felt they were being ripped off. However, you can rip of the low stakes players all you want. More will keep coming and sum will give you everything they have. Personaly I say use internet poker for recreation and learning… don’t use it to try and buil up a bankroll. Not gonna happen
Mike, i totally agree with you. After a deposit one is running
good, too good… for a while. I`ve seen 3 (!) quads at my first evening there and even a royal flush. But after this initial deposit “luck” hell breaks down on you. This site is damn joke rigged and unfair.
So, I have A J of diamonds and raise pre-flop with one caller.
Flop=2 of diamonds, J of hearts, 8 of diamonds
action to the caller – he bets, i raise all in, he calls…..
His cards – A of hearts, 6 of hearts……Basically he has absolutely nothing and is dominated at this point.
Turn is 5 of hearts, river is K of hearts……
My biggest loss was in a cash game on Full Tilt….
I flopped quad aces and ended up losing to a royal flush…..I have the screen shot to prove it.
I thought it was just me having extremely bad luck time and time again, but now I’m starting to think otherwise.
That sight is nothing but a 1000% scam !
They setup the small stax to go all in on monster hands and the bots – or house players take it all !
yur wasting yur time and money playing there !
I see it over n over n over again.
And I see some incredibly remarkable calls to big bluffs on the river, like a pair of 3’s taking it down with all paint on the board ! No way baby !
Playing in a big tournie, I know the player to my right is a human, I bluffed her out of a few pots, well her and I are low stacked, but enough to play with 2k each, I get KQ hrts, she gets KJ clubs, and the bot to my left get AKoff, of course we are all – all in, and the bot takes it all, with nothing but rags on the board !
Cmon man !!
I see it over n over n over again.
And how do each of these big $ gaurentees get 1200 entrants all day long ??? mathmatically impossible !
Hi,
I lost about 35K on full tilt. It seems whenever im running good they rape me. Ive been in numerous big tournmentws and when im going real good ill have a great hand and get sucked out by the unthinkable.
I want to sue this company any advice?
Thanks,
Warren Feit
One question, why doesn’t FTP have the balls to have their software audited? Pokerstars does. FTP also likes to claim they are regulated by the Kahnawake Gaming Commission. The Kahnawake Gaming Commission is not recognised by the Quebec government, nor the Canadian Federal Government. They are a self proclaimed commision created on a native reserve and are basically self made. Hmmmm.
[...] audit, but for whatever reason, it is not listed as an approved site. neither is Pokerstars. Full Tilt Leans Towards Big Hands? My Poker Million Approved Sites Any comments, insights? Has anyone heard of eCOGRA? [...]
I’ve noticed at full tilt when you have pocket pairs there is usually 2 or 3 other players that also have pocket pairs. I don’t know how many times I’ve been in middle position with 8-8 or 10-10, and I see everyone in early position limping in making it obvious that they have a pair in their hand. The only question at this point is whether or not you have the best pocket pair. I’ve seen this enough times to not dismiss it as coincidence. I’ve seen books written about poker stars algorithm, (search for poker stars cracked on google) but never full tilt. I’ve been playing real money at full tilt long enough now that it seems their software uses pocket pairs to change the course of a game, and I’ve never experienced this phenomenon in a live poker game. Has anyone else experienced this? It drives me nuts sometimes.
Maybe you people should look at your own games before crying rigged. Getting KQ and KJ all in pre when you claim to have enough chips to play is insane to say the least. Now I have seen a ton of bad beats on that site, however I have seen a ton of bad beats live in a casino too…how do you explain that? is the casino trying to rip you off?
peter, you are talking nonsense… ive been playing on fulltilt for over 2 years now. Ofcourse i had my swings, and ofcourse at times i’m frustrated by a lot of bad beads and sick hands, but i’m pretty convinced that it is not rigged..
about the guarantees: i see that the garuantees don’t make it a lot of times
as far as Bob Smith goes: how can we trust that you have actually worked there? do you have any proof?
Let’s start with the premise that FTP does not offer its free tables out of the goodness of their hearts. Now lets ask the question, which style of play is most profitable for the house. Loose/aggressive, right? Which style is least profitable? Tight, right? If you’re a donk and don’t really understand how long the odds are and you see the gut shot draw, you salivate and chase or even raise aggessivley. If FTP provides your suck out half the time instead of 1/6th the time it would be very easy to say, “I’m really good.” At which you point you make your deposit and begin building maximum rake on the pay site because you’ve been groomed to do so. It’s a modern day adaptation of PT Barnum’s famous quote. Even in regulated industries, corporations stretch the limits of legality and morality to optimize their profits. Just like in drug prohibition, the government has decided to forbid participation, in online gambling, leaving us with a much bigger problem than we’d otherwise have. IMHO, it is extremely naive to believe that FTP doesn’t take advantage of their position in this unregulated and very lucrative industry. After all, what are you going to do? Call a cop?
I agree with only using full tilt for learning the structure of the game. I believe there are people smart enuf and with a big enuff trust fund baby bankroll to adjust there play to b e able to turn a profit online over a span of a couple of years… And lucky enuf to finish high in a big tournament. However, dont play live like you do online. You will not win over time… Its all buisness and if you think Full-Tilt is not always trying to figure out ways to take as much of your money as they can, Then you are stupid… The Casinos would do it if they could, and they do, atleast as much as they can with the game play being live and being subject to government oversight.
It’s not rigged you stupid moron. I should know, since I’m a sponsored pro and I get my *** kicked on a daily basis. I’ve gone busto so many times I can’t even afford to buy weed, let alone blow.
Hi, there, I just want to say, I feel the same as you guys about Full Tilt. I played a few freerolls to begin with and started to accumulate a little bankroll, only about $10 or so.
I decided to put in about $100 so I had enough to only play 1-2% of my bankroll in tourneys SnG’s etc.
I started off fine a couple of cashes here n there, but then a bout 2 weeks ago, it never been the same since. Ive lost every single race and been sucked out on every single time I play.
I even began to think some other players who sucked out on me could see my hole cards!
I’m soooo mad I’m always losing.
In say a tourney where top 4 pay out, Im coming 5th. where I have AA, someone has KK, he hits his K on river etc.
One night a few days ago. I was in a tourney and got knocked out read this!:
Im late position with AQ, I raise 4 x Blind, bearing in mind everyone else had folded or limped, but they all fold anyway. Guy in SB calls.
Flop A Q 2…
I bet big, I mean 3/4 pot coz there flush draw…
He RE RAISES ME!!!!!!
I call knowing Im ahead…
Turn…7
Im still ok I have AAQQ,
I bet big, he min raises, so I push!!!
He snap calls!!! like I’ve never seen before!!!
He flips 72 off suit..
I m happy coz I know I’m still ahead.
River…..7?
Now tell me if I’m wrong, and I have SEVERAL instances similar to this where I’m ahead and someone with utter sh*t snap calls with nowt, and ends up winning.
But c’mon please!!! U can’t say its just BAD LUCK when it happens over and over again!!!
Its as if they can see the cards and they know they are going to win, therefore that why they snap call so fast with nowt! Why would he re raise me with the worst hand, and call with bottom pair on flop when I have bet out knowing that I raised pre flop????
I’m sure something is going on… a bit sussed to me?
I consider myself a solid strong player, who would win/cash in many tourneys as I do alot of the time in live events, but to lose/get sucked out on, or whatever in EVERY SINGLE TOURNEY 4-5 per night x the last 3 weeks, thats erm…thats 105 tourneys with NO WINS????
I’m sorry but that is just not me…I can’t see how full tilt has NOT been manipulated or people can hack into it somehow, because this LONG LOSING streak of mine is just UNREAL!!!!
online poker is 100% rigged. they cannot create a true rng. ive played at a couple different sites and they are all rigged. i have been profitable, but this is fighting the rig and capitalizing on terrible players. but i do believe in certain tourneys, there are predetermined cashers, to where atc they play they will hit. also ive noticed when u make a withdrawal, the bad beats and the real full tilt starts. but right after a deposit it seems like you have all the luck in the world. its rigged but im still playing hopefully they will be exposed soon enough and then it might be a real game. not to mention you have people colluding and rigging it already. they are not governed by anyone so they can do whatever they want. i hope all the owners of these companies get bacon AIDS.
hi all, ive been playing at ftp now for quite sometime and the things i see are really beyond a joke, i dont want to bore you all by going all the way through it but lets say this, if it was random then why have i been dealt 6 2 off etc one after each other the same time 5,6,7,times on the bounce, why do i see flops such as 777, 888, 999, 10 10 10 etc, why does it mostly favour the bigger stacks, why does it always seem to keep the disconnected players in the game longer once there down to there last blinds, the system always gives them a good flop, why is there always a fuckin jerk who pops out of nowhere so quick to defend this sham of a poker site, im telling ya, this site is so fucking rigged its beyond imagination.
for anyone who decides to put there own money on this totally criminal corrupt run site then please listen to someone like me whos been there and done it, and no im not saying this because ive lost my entire bankroll, im saying this because the statistics speak for themselves, belive me, you will end up losing after a good run of fortune because the system will and i mean WILL fuckin rape ya
all that i can say is if you dont believe me then try for yourself but dont say i didnt warn you.
its about time this site got investigated.
I too am a “winning player” winning about $2,000/month at the live casino. I deposited $600 into Fulltilt and made $200 the very first day, everything seemed normal. The 2nd day I lost $600+ and reviewed all the losing hands and discovered a common pattern. Each time I lost, I was favoured pre flop or post flop. All were setups, designed to get the money in either pre flop or post flop, with big time coolers on the turn/river. It really felt like someone was creating these setups behind a curtain and I was being conned. The more bad beats you suffer, the worst you may play and lose your money faster, and hopefully deposit more, trying to chase bonuses or points. Do not get sucked into the game of chasing bad money with good, play for fun online only and stick to casinos and do not ever send in any documentation with private information if they want it for withdraw purposes.
The 3 tournaments I tried, each time getting knocked out with top set to a runner runner flush or straight, when the appropriate bets were made.
Fulltilt fleeces pros like Mike Matusow, Patrick Antonius and whoever wins on this scam site, maybe connected to the insiders. The statistics speak for themselves.
The servers are hosted in Costa Rica and they are connected to the same tribe in Canada that was connected to the Ultimate Bet/AP cheating scandal with the super user account, nobody was ever arrested or identified.
Folks it is the perfect crime, they operate outside US Laws and have convinced the poker community that it is safe game as they recruit “pro players” like Phil Ivey to endorse it.
Where there is smoke, there is fire, and where there is fame and fortune to be made, there is cheating.
Look at Baseball, Wrestling, Boxing, Olympics, you get the idea.
Also if you need to cash out, you need to provide identification. Do you know they maybe stealing your identify or using the information you provide for illegal purposes? My advice, don’t play online, you will feel good here and there, but it is designed and programmed to fleece you by delivering bad beat after bad beat or monsters vs monsters. It will put you on tilt and try to extract you for everything you got.
Stick to the casinos and the local tournaments/vegas, you will get real poker games there.
Remember you are playing against players online who may be a bot, the deck maybe rigged, players sharing information over the phone/msn/side by side through different isp providers, insiders and when you lose and complain, the cheaters will ridicule you as being bad at poker and do not have good money management skills or is a losing player.
The criminals will be punished, in this life or next. I am sure they will be caught very soon.
full tilt poker as now banned me from using there forum because i mentioned the word rigged
i have found out why full tilt banned me from there forum now, its because i sent a post to there forum about the chris ferguson challenge which went a bit like this,
“personally i think full tilt poker paid mr ferguson quite a bit of cash to tell a lie about his challenge (winning 10.000 dollars from a freeroll)
i think ftp made this up and paid chris a huge sum of cash so that it would boost full tilt poker’s player database and get people to think that they too can do this too going from nothing to 10.000 dollars in a short period of time.
.
if you think about it, why didnt this get recorded to show everyone evidence of this accomplishment.
this site lies through its teeth to gain an advantage over other poker sites to try and stay ahead, and will go to any lengths to achieve this.
so all because i had an opinion about this cheating corrupt criminal run site i get banned from there forum,
so it prooves that this site only likes to hear people talk good about this site ,,and that they hate anyone who as a bad opinion about it. im not saying everything is bad about this site but theres certainly something dodgy going on with it. ive been playing on it too long to realize this.
the following is a post made by gunfighterx
I would like to preface this message by saying that I have won alot of money at poker. I won a big jackpot on another site (better site (it was pure luck)) and ultimately have profitted from internet poker.
With that in mind I will say this. Full TilT is corrupt, I would assume that the other sites are as well.
Anyone who disagrees with me I encourage you to offer your argument. Assuming it is not the typical and flawed argument “It is not in the websites interest”. It is in a internet casino’s interest to:
Keep players at the tables
Limit the amount a player wins
Award bad play
This is because it keeps money on the tables. It is impossible to track. It contributes to and encourages compulsive gamblers which comprise a majority of online players.
There is an abundant amount of proof that FULL TILT is corrupt. However the service providers will not allow that information to be observed (it has been requested and rejected by the Fed. however it is out of US jurisdiction and as such cannot be audited).
Although the advocates of FULL TILT would like the burden of proof to be on the client, (usually by implying it is not in their interest to control the online gambling environment), Ultimately the onus is on “the corporation providing the service” to provide 100% proof that they are not cheating their clients. Hiring a private law firm to do it is not 100%. You can not hire your own experts to investigate your own problems, the cigarette companies used this tactic for years and it ultimately backfired.
Take into consideration that these companies are offshore, completely unaccountable due to the nature of their product, (games of “chance” which are easily manipulated considering the technology) and there is no regulation by the government or any independent bodies that could disprove cheating in EVERYDAY Operations their is only one logical conclusion. INTERNET GAMBLING IS A BAD BET!!! (Hand for hand there is no regulation, think software, think bell curve and then think about how random the RNG really is.)
Phil Ivey and Howard Lederer would like you to believe otherwise but they are just whores who slowly bilk individuals of there money. I would like to hear oopposing arguments and possibly some that may agree but I “bet” this is the wrong forum for that.
PS If you can not have a rational mature debate about this than please do not respond (or go fuch yourself) if so I look forward to your comments.
The Pro you’ll never know
then this arsehole called theshadowplay is the sort of person that always pops up out of the blue to defend these sites, this is the sort of player i was on about in one of my previous comments, now this person named theshadowplay responded to gunfighterx’s post which went like this
So don’t play here.
Abundant proof that isn’t there, evil offshore companies, you KNOWING one specific site is corrupt while assuming others are as well…
Guess I’m not playing here anymore.
P.S. This isn’t the debate on online poker integrity forum.
how i hate pricks like these people, always there to stand up for corruption, TOSSER
another typical bullshit rigged for action setup by full tilt joker
Full Tilt Poker Game #15315450818: $100 United Kingdom Freeroll (112137051), Table 183 – 15/30 – No Limit Hold’em – 15:41:18 ET – 2009/10/13
Seat 1: dra9on (1,635)
Seat 2: fillage (1,605), is sitting out
Seat 3: spurs4everagain (1,455), is sitting out
Seat 4: nemesis147 (1,480) <———- me
Seat 5: colino50 (1,410)
Seat 6: riverking991 (1,500)
Seat 8: betallin9 (1,500)
Seat 9: papilion (1,410)
colino50 posts the small blind of 15
riverking991 posts the big blind of 30
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to nemesis147 [4s 4h]
betallin9 has 15 seconds left to act
betallin9 calls 30
papilion calls 30
dra9on folds
fillage folds
spurs4everagain folds
nemesis147 calls 30
colino50 calls 15
riverking991 raises to 180
betallin9 calls 150
papilion calls 150
nemesis147 calls 150
colino50 folds
*** FLOP *** [5d 3c 6s]
riverking991 has 15 seconds left to act
riverking991 checks
betallin9 checks
papilion has 15 seconds left to act
papilion bets 240
nemesis147 raises to 1,305, and is all in
riverking991 folds
betallin9 raises to 1,320, and is all in
papilion calls 990, and is all in
betallin9 shows [7d 9c]
papilion shows [Kd Kc]
nemesis147 shows [4s 4h]
Uncalled bet of 15 returned to betallin9
*** TURN *** [5d 3c 6s] [8c]
*** RIVER *** [5d 3c 6s 8c] [Js]
betallin9 shows a straight, Nine high
nemesis147 shows a pair of Fours
betallin9 wins the side pot (150) with a straight, Nine high
papilion shows a pair of Kings
betallin9 wins the main pot (4,440) with a straight, Nine high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4,590 Main pot 4,440. Side pot 150. | Rake 0
Board: [5d 3c 6s 8c Js]
Seat 1: dra9on didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: fillage didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: spurs4everagain didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: nemesis147 (button) showed [4s 4h] and lost with a pair of Fours
Seat 5: colino50 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 6: riverking991 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 8: betallin9 showed [7d 9c] and won (4,590) with a straight, Nine high
Seat 9: papilion showed [Kd Kc] and lost with a pair of Kings
After playing literally thousands of hands on numerous online poker sites and probably hundreds of thousands of “REAL” poker hands i would bet my bankroll that Full Tilt Poker is a fix. They want action so bad that they have shot themsleves in the foot by making it so obvious.
One very common trick to get people into big hands is this:
One player will get an Ace and a high card ( Say J, Q, or K), while another player in the same hand will hit trips with smaller cards while the player with A/high card hits on thier J, Q or K. When you have trips and top pair-top kicker in a hand together there will be more action.
Not to mention the unbeleivable suck outs by chasers.
The reason people chase on this site is because THEY HIT. They are familiar with the FTP algorithms and more often then it should they will get paid off.
I AM NOT AN ANGRY PLAYER WHO HAS LOST MONEY. I don’t think i will ever be in the red from my poker playing, but this is the truth.
PLEASE visit PETITIONSPOT.COM and sign the petition against FTP’s bad business practice. And keep in mind that the gaming commission regulating these sites is an undermanned group based out of a native reserve who has little to no knowledge or access to the true software being used by FTP.
Please BOYCOTT Full Tilt Poker and get as many people as you can to sign this petition. If you love poker it is the only way to save the game from the hands of these greedy SOB’s.
Does anybody know how to contact “Bob Smith” about his December 29, 2008 comment? I am a lawyer, I make my living litigating consumer class actions against corporations that cheat consumers. I also play on Full Tilt. Sometimes well, sometimes poorly, but I notice the exact same patterns and situations that many others have noticed.
My most pathetic beat story involves having pocket AA cracked by A8o after the last of my bankroll went in on an Ax8 flop — and the turn and river then came 88 to give the villain quads. I guess that’s one way to secure another deposit.
I am very tired of seeing my SNG short-stack pocket AA PF shove called — and my hand invariably cracked — by the big stack’s K8s (or similar) JUNK on FTP.
Yes, I understand ICM play in SNGs, and I understand that mathematically, it’s often the correct call depending on the stacks. I also recognize that at times I am prone to playing up, over what my bankroll can be expected to withstand with expected variance. My bad. But it’s remarkable to me how many times in a row I can have the best hand when the money goes in and it gets cracked when there is an identifiable financial incentive to Full Tilt in my losing the hand.
Just unreal stuff, and consistently the cards have soured in an obvious manner after I had deposited and gone on a decent run. Go figure. If what Bob Smith says is credible, and objectively provable, I will try to figure out a way to do something about it.
Cadernero, this has happened me over and over, it goes back to their coding; allowing big hands to face off against each other, creating bigger pots and more rebuys/deposits.
Their goal is to put you on tilt, so you play worst and lose money faster and deposit faster. Some people stop at $600, and some people will stop at $3million, their job is to fleece you for your theoretical maximum. I feel bad for all those people out there who bought into this fantasy poker thinking their skills will make them like the next Phil Ivey or Tom Dwan only to lose their entire savings/house etc.
The facts are, their program is not checked by a true 3rd party that is trusted and verfied, their servers and company is located offshore in Costa Rica, where US Authorities cannot audit/regulate, their programming code has been verified by programmers as being rigged to favour action and you do not know who you are playing against, a bot? a team? a insider? Their gaming license is issued by the same Tribe in Canada that was linked to the Ultimate Bet/AP cheating scandal. They can flip a switch at any given time and fleece your money with unreal bad beats and people will tell you, you are going through some bad luck/variance lol what a cash grab eh? THE PERFECT CRIME. If your $600 bankroll cannot survive the online $1/$2 NL game and you are a winning poker player with stats to back it up, it is obvious you are being cheated online.
The site is rigged to help them generate money faster, kinda sad as this is so obvioius now with so many players coming forward confirming their own findings/experiences online.
Nothing will change until everyone stops playing and think they are playing a fair game when they are not. They are operating outside US laws and have bribed many people to convince the mass that they are legit, when they are in fact a online scam.
[...] hearing a lot about Full Tilt’s new software and even more people are complaining about their action-filled algorithm and how it’s designed to get people all in and not like a real poker game. I [...]
I used to play online poker on about 4-5 other sites before they got shut down for U.S residents. I didn’t get rich but I made money on all of them and I consider myself a far better player now. I have tried to play on Full Tilt on and off for about a year now, I started by playing the cash games and got destroyed over and over and finally decided to only play heads up Sit and Go’s. (That way I know people aren’t colluding which seems to happen in the live games.) Over the last two days I have lost all in with KK 7 times and QQ once to someone who had ace 4 or ace 5 and each time they flopped two pair. Each of the 9 times the money is all in preflop, I don’t know how they even are in the hand. Every time! Its just too weird they always have the ace 4 or ace 5 and flop two pair each time. And are willing to put all their chips in with it! When we’re even stacked! Even lost with QQ against Q6 off all in preflop and AA against AQ. Along with losing with AQ against A-8, or flopping 3 8’s and losing to someone with pocket 77 all in and they river a 7, and too many other ridiculous beats to mention. I do not know if it is rigged but I just can’t play on it anymore. I permanently deactivated my account, I’ll stick to the casino. When I see that the person I am playing has 3 outs and I know they are going to hit it drives me crazy. The other stupid thing is that when I do win its when I get it all in with AJ against AK, 88 against KK, etc. Then I hit the 2 or 3 outer. I win more tourneys when I put my money in behind then ahead.
Does anyone have any feedback about PokerStars or any other sites? I wish Pokeroom/Party Poker/Pacific Poker would reopen. I would run bad occasionally on them but nothing like this. Its probably just really bad luck but I don’t want to worry anymore that its rigged or the algorithm is broken or something.
Ive just withdrawed the amount I had left in my account now.
It’s the same tendency as all the other pages I’ve tried, only so extreme here that it is surrealistic.
They let u win big the first few days, and then the surreal strike of bad beats appears. U wouldn’t believe what I’ve seen the last few days.
I know that deuces will bust Aces from time to time. Might even happen twice in a row. If u are real unlucky maybe three.
But I have had bad beats like this the last 25-30 $22 sit’n'gos now.
It’s just stupid to it’s bad luck.
I do believe though that this site will be busted soon. As someone said, it’s too obvious here. It’s so obvious that u start to expect one of the only three outs that can beat u will come on the turn or most likely the river. Wich it does at atleast half of the time.
Hope the creators of this fuckin fraud gets locked up one day and have to share cell with Dennis Rader. Fucking criminals.
BTW anyone who knows a site where it actually is fair game?? Would be great, cause i really love the game.
ok, ive been playing online holdem for 9 years now. I deposit about once a year. usually 100 bucks. I play SNG’s only.
also, to let everyone know how conservtive of a player i am, i play 100x the buy in. so for my first 2 weeks here my luck is rather stagnant.. i was up to 105 at one point but mostly fluctuating around 90. Then today. Down to 20. Every flush draw hits, all in calls with nothing getting runner runner to win and about %95 of coin tosses lost. at one point i lost 32 coin tosses in a row. AK beat consistently by A rag. you name it. I cant flip a coin 32 times and get it to land heads like that….the odds are virtually impossible. When most pros recommend you play 30x the buyin and i do a hundred how in the hell do i manage to lose my entire bankroll…in one day!
IF THIS ISNT DEFINITIVE PROOF THAT THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THEIR DEALING KERNEL I DONT KNOW WHAT WILL CONVINCE YOU.
been through the fult tilt rape twice now separated by six months. yeah, full tilt’s not rigged and oswald shot JFK.
bob smith story is extremely curious. is full tilt willing to sue him for libel/perjury? if not, they’re just hoping the information remains suppressed. the only response from the full tilt PR staff so far is to question whether or not bob smith actually worked for full tilt. if that is in question, then full tilt should take legal action given the seriousness of his allegations.
my bankroll strategy is vulnerable to ridicule by proponents of the site’s authenticity. i deposited in increments of the minimum $30. i would most often buy in to $.25/$.50 tables for $10. somewhere within the first 2 deposits i would hit a couple of a runs that would take to between $100 and $200 in the account. then the full tilt insanity would hit. set up after set up with hands i couldn’t fold. sometimes i would go on tilt but mostly i would deposit another $30 and play just out of disbelief that the set ups could keep happening. after a certain point, i would get no runs and only consecutive losing hands that appear prearranged.
sometimes i was short-stacked and other times not but never did i make large deposits.
i have gone on bad runs in live games and even played with crooked dealers. the full tilt algorithm generated the feeling of a pattern similar to crooked dealers only much smoooother.
having played plenty of free online backgammon sites, i don’t think any online gaming is truly random. the roles seem weighted in backgammon and unrealistic at pogo and other sites. however, what goes on on full tilt seems to be a larger conspiracy to extract a series of deposits.
there are certain correlations between the full tilt bad streaks and live game bad streaks which allow full tilt to hide behind a veil of realism. however, the instant rushes for new players and players who have not played in a while combined with the gradual slide into a series of impossible situations differs drastically from live hold ‘em.
i’m sure i’m not the first player who said, “what the hell” and deposited a hundred more dollars just to see if the pattern would continue unabated once the downturn started. eventually, you get to the point where you realize it’s rigged and it’s not worth your money anymore.
this thread is awesome. i wish i hadn’t thrown my money away but i will follow the people who step forward with their stories which confirm my experience and hope that full tilt eventually dies. my $1000 is nothing compared to the collapse of a multi-million dollar scam. GET THE WORD OUT!
I cant believe im reading this it all makes perfect sense. I’m also wondering why when i try out another site all of a sudden im winning 90 player sit n go’s. I have an awsome ROI live but online I struggle ,always being right with reads and calls but somehow losing anyway. Are all online site the same? I am so disheartened.