I’m been coming across some amazing beats lately. I know it’s part of the game and all, but it’s just really outside of the realm of realistic. I know this sounds like the ramblings of a loser, but I just can’t help it the way some of these hands have fallen.
Anyway, while doing some searching, I came across the idea that the Full Tilt card shuffling algorithm may not be quite a random as we think. There’s some people that think perhaps they skew their algorithm to create more ‘exciting’ play by hitting more big hands. I even found a weird post about a university study being conducted on the topic (which I was totally unable to verify- especially since it’s an unnamed university)
I was also pretty excited (in my witchhunt-like state of mind) to come across this blog full of screen shots that verify the lunacy of the situation. I’m going to start posting some of my recent screencaps of unbelievable hands as well and maybe we’ll find that there’s something behind this. How crazy would that be?
I’ve had some crazy times with online poker, back when I was playing Sit ‘n Go’s exclusively, I almost gave up on online poker altogether.
Since then, I’ still occassionally bump into people in games who bemoan how unlucky they are etc, or call Poker Stars river stars for instance, my first impression is its just a load of crap, probably to ease a loosing players ego and nothing more.
In a game like poker, lots of things can happen, and that scope includes lots of very unpredictable outcomes, even very rare ones. yesterday someone made a full house on the river, the same time someone made a royal flush, it certainly doesn’t happen every day, but I think its a little paranoid to suggest there is something wrong, just because we’ve seen something unusual.
Keep up the grind xxx
Ok now I have been playing online poker for over 5yrs and I can tell you without a doubt ALL ONLINE POKER WITES CHEAT. How could you possibly say this you are just a sore loser thats why. Well Don’t buy the hype people and just think about this for one minute with an open mind or atleast some smarts. Online poker is a computer program to make someone money~there is NO laws that say they can not cheat you or set up the programming to there favour~If they get caught cheating what would happen to them? No one will goto jail because there is NO LAW T OSTOP THEM~ They are dealing with gamlers we will pay anything if we think we can win but in the end the sites just win~ bt they make so much money why would they need t ocheat? well microsoft makes alot of money but do they stop wanting to make money because they have enough? Does Donald Trump still want to make more money? Listen people it is a free license to steal thats it~ how do they do this? Simple they force hand action what ever d oyou mean ever notice that there is almost always a huge hand against another huge hand that no one can get away from? well thats because they are forcing action and by doing this the pot is bigger , bigger the pot the bigger the rake, the bigger the rake the more money they make! eg. poker stars my win % with KK is 32% my win % with AA is 43% my win % with Ace Rag is 67% now does that sound right to you? no because they want you to play those hands more money for them. do yourself a favour and count how manytimes 3 outters or less win and how many times you miss the open ended str8 draws with 2 overs? Why because you will pay to chase those odds and well the more you chase the more they make! Don’t be stupid we are all being ripped off and who ever says no is either an associate of the sites and make money from them or the yare the DONK that win simple! Live poker i make on average $6500/month part time online i lose $1500 or more it doesnt add up and the numbers dont lie! why you think the real pro dont do good online? because the cards are set up it is simple it is not true poker!
I dont know whether you really make that money live…but if you actually do the reason is quite simple: in online poker the competition is much thougher than live. There are just better players around. If the game would be rigged it would be very easy to prove it, you would just need like 100k hands on poker tracker and you could see if something is statistically wrong. Show me that 100k hands! I think you are just some loser that cant accept hes playing bad poker online. Its just retarded to call the winning people donks. YOU are the donk because you lose…I win and iam definately not a donk.
Thanks for the link brother. Yeah the beats are still happening. Hey, when that class action lawsuit hits my beats will be documented. LOL
I’ve been analyzing this more and more lately and I think maybe (just maybe) it isn’t rigged. I just think that, for some reason, FullTilt is full of chasers. Somehow, the site seems to be populated with people that will chase with anything. It is almost like people would rather make a big win from time-to-time and lose tons of small hands than make an actual profit.
In the end, this is a good thing for the good poker player. We need to adjust our strategy (everywhere, but especially at FullTilt). We need to punish chasers and punish them HARD. Since they are so prone to chasing, we need to charge them a large toll. They will pay it.
When you have the nut flush and they have two pair, bet that out and get value for it. You’ll lose occasionally when they get the full house, so get paid well every time they don’t get the full house. If you stack every sucker who has a set or two pair when you have the nut flush or straight and then get stacked once because someone catches the miracle river, it doesn’t hurt so bad.
Our mutual friend, brooklyn bum, has been commenting about it a lot lately. When you have a hand, bet it out and get paid for it. People will call with lesser hands.
Not too long ago I was playing $1/2 live and held K K. I raised pre-flop $10 and got a caller. The flop came two low spades, everything undercards to my kings and I bet almost the size of the pot, he called. The turn came a non-spade and still no ace and I bet out around 2/3 the pot and got called. The river brought a spade and I just knew he had caught his flush so I checked and he bet out the pot and I called to see it. He flipped As Qs and had the nut flush (and nothing else). I lost about $150 on the hand. It felt crappy. I shouldn’t have made the river call, that was my main mistake. But here’s the moral of the story: about 80% of the time I make $75 on that hand because he misses the river (and folds to any bet); 15% of the time I lose $75 (because he hits the river and I don’t call); 5% of the time I lose $150 (because he hits and I do call to make sure I keep the bluffers honest). If me and Howard (that was the name of my opponent) play that hand 100 times the same way (and this is the important part), I make +$4125 ($75*80 – ($75*15) – ($150*5)). I can focus on this time, where it all went wrong, or I can just keep making the right decision over and over and reap the rewards. I’ll take the rewards.
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@badbeats- didn’t see this comment until today so the moderation was not intentional
I don’t know what to believe anymore. Whether by design or by accident, I don’t think that the algorithm at Full Tilt matches what you see at real poker tables. The percentages just don’t add up.
Is anyone really investigating this? Does it even matter?
Full Tilt advertises having the most exciting online poker you can find anywhere. I think their algorithm ensures this. But I also think you can respond to it intelligently by playing with an awareness of the sorts of things the algorithm does. For instance, if you have jacks on FTP, somebody else probably has aces, so be expecting something like that.
i play fulltilt quite often and i would have to agree with Badbeats “’been analyzing this more and more lately and I think maybe (just maybe) it isn’t rigged. I just think that, for some reason, FullTilt is full of chasers.”
i dont think its rigged, when you play higher stakes, you will come across better players and less chasers.(most of the time)
playing live poker some nights are the same, just cant buy a win
I’ve never been a big winning online poker player but never have I lost as quickly as I did at FullTiltPoker. In fact I lost in the same ways you define here, I played hands correctly and those who would run desperately for the only few cards that could same them in fact HIT THEM CARDS.
This did not happen just a few times, it happened over and over again. It has me wondering what is wrong with their algorithm as it seems to be flawed.
Never did I see so many unbelievable hands in such short amout of time and they were mostly against me which makes me wonder if they favorize certain players or if they even perhaps run bots who ensures them some of the money stays at full tilt poker.
I make a living from programming and I can ensure you there is nothing truly random about their algorithm.
Their are many folk out there arguing about if online poker is rigged or not…I wold like to help put this to rest by stating that it is rigged in many different ways. i helped write some of the software for tiltware LLC…while working on the fulltilt site some of the other programmers and i were asked to install programming into the software that would recognize certain players and provide them with unbeatable hands. we were also asked to develope software that would provide what they called the”maximum oppurtunity to bet” which meant that the deals are rigged to deal out alot of good starting hands to alot of players so that the most betting possible would take place on every deal. The deal would then provide a monster flop in which atleast two players would be all in before the river.(ever wonder why nobody ever misses the flop online…because then no one would bet and that is not what fulltilt wants) This keeps the tourneys fast paced and exciting which players love. Fulltilt loves this too, the faster you lose the faster they can make more money off you by having enter another tourney.
There is also another way fulltilt cheats you out of cash with their own personal players. These players are called house players and are fulltime employees of the Fulltilt compnay. If you check some names and their online wins vs. loss records you will often find them with records that are simply unreal. I have seen some of these folks who win over 50 straight sessions without a loss…how can this be possible unless they are working on the inside. They come and go and change their names often but they play in the site with the full adavantage of being able to see all the cards in play and in the deck.
Another programming trick we wrote into the software at fulltilt is the levels trick…this trick takes place when a tournament has been running after the first break. The computer recognizes the different size of each players chip stack and begins to deal out hands in which a small stack will shove all in and a large stack will have a better hand to call with. Have you ever wondered why you get pocekt QQs with 1500 chips and the guy next to you gets pockets KKs and he has 10,000 chips? The answer is simple the site is programmed to get you to play as much as possible. So we programmed the site to eliminate the small stack as quickly as possible so that they can go enter another tourney asap. The site is even prgrammed to adjust the flop for big stacks so that even if the big stack calls your hand with nothing he will end up beating your good made hand by the river. Often times the site will deal you back to back hands with the same cards but maybe different colors or suits..this “glitch” is a sign that the computer is adjusting the shuffle to start elimnting small stacks and allow the tourney to finish quicker.
The sooner a tournament is done the faster fulltilt can have you back at another table spending more money…it is to this sites best interested to eliminate you from tables as fast as possbile. There is no one to regulate how the company manipulates the software to thier own advantage. There is no one to monitor how the company pays out its players and employees. Simply put, giving some offshore account your hard earned cash is simply insane. Thinking that these people arent cheating you out of your money is crazy, the site has many layers of hidden programming all set up to take full adavantage of all types of players from novice to expert.
the main reason i wrote this blog is to expose the fraud that takes place at online gaming site known as Fulltilt poker i was fired three months ago from the company that helped write the software..yes i am bitter and mad but i do fell everyone so know how bad fulltilt is and that is a site built by THIEVES!!
You say that you worked on the software? I’d like to see some facts to back this up… perhaps your resume that would have gotten you the job in the first place?
Rex
Are you stupid? If he posted who he was he’d be sued by full tilt poker for leaking insider information. He also would probably never be able to get a programming job again. If you were over 18 and not living at your parents, you would understand how harsh the real world is.
RS, Rex is just showing the same amount of skepticism we all have for anything posted anonymously, I don’t think he actually expected “Bob Smith” to post his resume.
However, people do occasionally come forward, it does happen. Ever see The Insider? True story of how, at great personal expense, a former tobacco industry executive helped the states take Big Tobacco down for a $260 Billion settlement, death threats and all. Sometimes a disgruntled former employee is more interested in revenge than job security. Sometimes the old conscience kicks in.
I’ve worked with a whistleblower who helped take down a major property and casualty insurance company when she left the insurance arena to become a police officer. In her case there was no axe to grind, just a lot of guilt over how she had treated policyholders. Her testimony has cost that company nearly $300 Million – and counting.
We’re all just waiting for Pocket Kings, aka Full Tilt, to summarily fire the wrong programmer, or for another one to feel guilty enough to come forward.
I have to agree with you fully on the schematics. I have seen the patterns (giving me crap cards till I’m down to 4 big blinds and then giving me KK, I go all in and get called by any two cards that win the hand no matter what they have). I won’t explain every thing that I have seen because it would take way too long to type, but if you want a break down I’ll do it. I have also noticed something recently that involves the Rush Poker tournaments: I enter the $4.00 + .40 rush tourneys with 135 players (top 15 get paid) – so far I have played 15 of them in the last 7 days. I will build my chip stack to around 14,000 with 40 players left (which puts me in the top 5 or 6. After the first break is where it all starts going downhill – they start dealing me 72, 63, 92, Q4, and A rag until I finally get a KQs or AKs and I raise, the last player to act goes all-in, doesn’t matter what position he or she is in, sometimes I call but most times I don’t, when I call they win. What then happens is I get the second best hand every time from there on out, and they make me the big blind every 3 or 4 hands (that can’t be right) then I end up going from 3 out of 40 or 5 out of 39 or 6 out of 27 to 16 out 0f 16 and then out before the money with a big hand or a decent hand in the big blind and the guy next to me has one better, they will deal me KhQh and the flop comes Ks 2h 8h and I bet, the only player in the hand with me goes all in and I call, he shows 7c7s the turn comes 10s and the river 7d, I’m not making this up, it happens 98% of the time – as a matter of fact, I am playing one right now where I was 3 of 41 before the break and everything that I just said previously has just happened and now I’m 17 of 20 and I got Kh10h in the BB so I push and the only person still to act calls with KcQc – the flop comes 6h 8h Jc – turn 9c – river is 2d. I just went out in 17th place, as you can see I have no reason to fold in that situation. The last 16 Rush Tourneys that I played in I have finished 16th fourteen times, 17th once, and 5th once (top 15 get paid) – I finished 5th in my 1st Rush tourney ($44.00) and then bubbled every time after that until I finally finished one from the button. When I first started playing on UB, I deposited $100 and built that up to $660 in 2 weeks and then I started losing to 1 and 2 outers constantly. The same thing happened at Poker Stars and Full Tilt. I am a gambler, I play a lot of live poker and have lately tried to stay away from playing online, I have many brick and mortar places around me that have live games; 10 places that have tourneys at noon, 4pm, and 7pm with cash games from noon until 2am and 3 casinos with 24/7 cash games and tourneys twice a day. I make around $1000 a month playing live tournaments with an average of 100 players twice a week – if I could afford it, I would play more than twice a week but I’m trying keep my gambling under control lol. When I play online I notice sooooo many things that rarely ever happen in live play but they happen way too often in the online poker world. I have met over 500 people who I see on a regular bases while playing live poker – of those 500+ people, there are about 50 that I can say are really good players, I have had discussions with those players about online poker and only 5 of them agree with me saying that online poker is rigged, but not 1 of those 50 or 1 of those 500+ have had any success online, also, I have never in my life seen or met someone who has ever been succesful online and not one of them has ever been seen wearing a FT, UB, PS, Bodog, or AP adorned shirt, hat, jersey, jacket, or anything like that. As a matter of fact, a friend of mine (female) went to the WSOP, entered a $1500 all female no limit hold-em tourney and finished 17th for $17,000, she is 1 of the 50 that are good and 1 of the 5 that says online poker is rigged. Have your own beliefs about online poker because you better believe I have mine; the only way you can prove me wrong is by showing me that you are successful playing online over the long haul. I am done with these sites, I am going to stick to live poker where there are no RNG’s to determine my fate. If the government doesn’t regulate your business then you are free to do what you want and no one, and I do mean no one, is immune to greed. Good luck to all and I wish nothing but the best for everyone, including the greedy thieves that run Full Tilt.
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Its rigged. I play there for free, but will never put money into it again. I will stick to the casinos for that… I am up lifetime at the casinos around here, 25K in 3.4 years. I played at fulltilt got my bankroll to about 2K. Then went to -1K in a span of about 4 months with a string of completly unlogical set up bad beats… What do you expect? They advertise the hands to be “The most exciting”, They don’t pay out bad beats,.. its rigged. They got my 1k and they can choke on it. I wont put money in there again. Im sure its different for the high rollers in the big torneys, cuz they wouldn’t play there if they felt they were being ripped off. However, you can rip of the low stakes players all you want. More will keep coming and sum will give you everything they have. Personaly I say use internet poker for recreation and learning… don’t use it to try and buil up a bankroll. Not gonna happen
Mike, i totally agree with you. After a deposit one is running
good, too good… for a while. I`ve seen 3 (!) quads at my first evening there and even a royal flush. But after this initial deposit “luck” hell breaks down on you. This site is damn joke rigged and unfair.
So, I have A J of diamonds and raise pre-flop with one caller.
Flop=2 of diamonds, J of hearts, 8 of diamonds
action to the caller – he bets, i raise all in, he calls…..
His cards – A of hearts, 6 of hearts……Basically he has absolutely nothing and is dominated at this point.
Turn is 5 of hearts, river is K of hearts……
My biggest loss was in a cash game on Full Tilt….
I flopped quad aces and ended up losing to a royal flush…..I have the screen shot to prove it.
I thought it was just me having extremely bad luck time and time again, but now I’m starting to think otherwise.
That sight is nothing but a 1000% scam !
They setup the small stax to go all in on monster hands and the bots – or house players take it all !
yur wasting yur time and money playing there !
I see it over n over n over again.
And I see some incredibly remarkable calls to big bluffs on the river, like a pair of 3′s taking it down with all paint on the board ! No way baby !
Playing in a big tournie, I know the player to my right is a human, I bluffed her out of a few pots, well her and I are low stacked, but enough to play with 2k each, I get KQ hrts, she gets KJ clubs, and the bot to my left get AKoff, of course we are all – all in, and the bot takes it all, with nothing but rags on the board !
Cmon man !!
I see it over n over n over again.
And how do each of these big $ gaurentees get 1200 entrants all day long ??? mathmatically impossible !
Hi,
I lost about 35K on full tilt. It seems whenever im running good they rape me. Ive been in numerous big tournmentws and when im going real good ill have a great hand and get sucked out by the unthinkable.
I want to sue this company any advice?
Thanks,
Warren Feit
One question, why doesn’t FTP have the balls to have their software audited? Pokerstars does. FTP also likes to claim they are regulated by the Kahnawake Gaming Commission. The Kahnawake Gaming Commission is not recognised by the Quebec government, nor the Canadian Federal Government. They are a self proclaimed commision created on a native reserve and are basically self made. Hmmmm.
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I’ve noticed at full tilt when you have pocket pairs there is usually 2 or 3 other players that also have pocket pairs. I don’t know how many times I’ve been in middle position with 8-8 or 10-10, and I see everyone in early position limping in making it obvious that they have a pair in their hand. The only question at this point is whether or not you have the best pocket pair. I’ve seen this enough times to not dismiss it as coincidence. I’ve seen books written about poker stars algorithm, (search for poker stars cracked on google) but never full tilt. I’ve been playing real money at full tilt long enough now that it seems their software uses pocket pairs to change the course of a game, and I’ve never experienced this phenomenon in a live poker game. Has anyone else experienced this? It drives me nuts sometimes.
Maybe you people should look at your own games before crying rigged. Getting KQ and KJ all in pre when you claim to have enough chips to play is insane to say the least. Now I have seen a ton of bad beats on that site, however I have seen a ton of bad beats live in a casino too…how do you explain that? is the casino trying to rip you off?
Dumb ass, you are missing the point. The point is the software is rigged for certain player accounts! PERIOD!!! Everything that I had intuitively believed has been verified over and over again. The point your missing is that certain players go all in on KQ or KJ, and win , win , win, with the losing hand. I have yet to win with a losing hand even one time if I am lucky in one week. I see players win with the losing hand over and over and over again in one tourney. Now, that is bullshit!!! That just does not happen! Pokerstars is a scam too!!! They monitor your chat!! Whenever I start complaining what a cheat their site is, they either transfer me to another table so that my conversation with the other players are broken up. There was no reason for me to be transferred, b/c when I went back to view the table they transferred me from, my old seat was still empty. It was weird b/c they transferred me without anybody going out at my table. They NEVER do that!!!Normally. They did it b/c I was talking shit about their being a cheat, and given details on why. Other times, when i get knocked out on a badbeat of course, I talk shit again about them being a cheat. As soon as I do this, they close the table!!! They never do that when I get knocked out and don’t talk!!!! Come on!! They are monitoring, and they will TWEAK their software to put you in the lower win% into the high loss%. I know who computers work, alogrithms, etc. You can push a button and TWEAK anybodies account with a win-loss %. They don’t cheat with the cards, they cheat by setting players accounts with a win/loss%. PERIOD!!! PROOF POSITVE FOLKS. Slot machines are set the same way. You are a fucking slot machine to them. If they don’t like you, they turn you into a “tight” machine. Which means you will consistenly lose no matter what hand you are playing. Fuck ONLINE Poker!!!! The reason why we still play is b/c we are addicted to it, and hope that they changed are precentages to it. PEACE OUT.
I agree 100% lol a man that speaks the truth! we are addicts thats why we keep going back any normal person woulda said holy shit they are cheating and they would never go back but then again we as addicts think we can beat the system!
your a retard! I play 5 days a week at a casino sometimes 12hr swings and the bad beats do not even come close not even in the same realm as online. Online is rigged 100% they thrive on us gamblers becasue we always think we can beat the system and before you even state that stupid azz retarded typical donkey explination that you see more hands online is bs and has no bearring on the amount of badbeats you get. 100 hands live is the exact same as 100 hands online and in 100 hands live maybe 10 bad beats online probably more in the area of 60 bad beats or more! If you can not see that then you havnt played enough poker or your not smart enough to figure out that when it comes to money people are just not nice. Meaning if you have the ability to steal money from people and not goto jail for it or even suffer any punishment well your gonna do it!
I agree fully, not only have I played 10′s of thousands of hands online, I have also played 10′s of thousands of hands live, I have been playing for 6 years live – let’s add this up; I play at least twice a week (sometimes more) so let’s say I play an average of 10 tourneys and 8 cash games a month, I’m usually dealt 1.2 times around each blind for the tourneys = 11 hands every 15 min. I almost always make it to the final table, if not I make it to 15th or 16th place which takes an average of 5 hours, so if you minus the three 10 min. breaks you get 4.5 hours of hands at 11 hands every 15 min. or 44 hands an hour = 44 x 4.5 is 198 hands per tourney, since I play 10 a month or 2.5 a week I see 495 hands a week x 4 = 1980 a month, I will be conservative and say that I see half as many cash game hands (since people take longer to act and think during in that setting) = 1980 tourney hands a month and 990 cash game hands a month, now we can multiply that by the number of years I have played, 6 years (72) months minus the 6 total months that I went on hiatus = 68 months x 2970 hands each month = 201,960 live hands and I cannot compare the bad beats online to the bad beats live – there is nooooooo comparison, not even close.
peter, you are talking nonsense… ive been playing on fulltilt for over 2 years now. Ofcourse i had my swings, and ofcourse at times i’m frustrated by a lot of bad beads and sick hands, but i’m pretty convinced that it is not rigged..
about the guarantees: i see that the garuantees don’t make it a lot of times
as far as Bob Smith goes: how can we trust that you have actually worked there? do you have any proof?
Let’s start with the premise that FTP does not offer its free tables out of the goodness of their hearts. Now lets ask the question, which style of play is most profitable for the house. Loose/aggressive, right? Which style is least profitable? Tight, right? If you’re a donk and don’t really understand how long the odds are and you see the gut shot draw, you salivate and chase or even raise aggessivley. If FTP provides your suck out half the time instead of 1/6th the time it would be very easy to say, “I’m really good.” At which you point you make your deposit and begin building maximum rake on the pay site because you’ve been groomed to do so. It’s a modern day adaptation of PT Barnum’s famous quote. Even in regulated industries, corporations stretch the limits of legality and morality to optimize their profits. Just like in drug prohibition, the government has decided to forbid participation, in online gambling, leaving us with a much bigger problem than we’d otherwise have. IMHO, it is extremely naive to believe that FTP doesn’t take advantage of their position in this unregulated and very lucrative industry. After all, what are you going to do? Call a cop?
I agree with only using full tilt for learning the structure of the game. I believe there are people smart enuf and with a big enuff trust fund baby bankroll to adjust there play to b e able to turn a profit online over a span of a couple of years… And lucky enuf to finish high in a big tournament. However, dont play live like you do online. You will not win over time… Its all buisness and if you think Full-Tilt is not always trying to figure out ways to take as much of your money as they can, Then you are stupid… The Casinos would do it if they could, and they do, atleast as much as they can with the game play being live and being subject to government oversight.
It’s not rigged you stupid moron. I should know, since I’m a sponsored pro and I get my *** kicked on a daily basis. I’ve gone busto so many times I can’t even afford to buy weed, let alone blow.
Mike you go broke because you suck! and you are backing the sites up because they pay you! dumb ass I dont even know how you win at all you are a horrible poker player which goes to show it is better to be lucky then good hu!
Hi, there, I just want to say, I feel the same as you guys about Full Tilt. I played a few freerolls to begin with and started to accumulate a little bankroll, only about $10 or so.
I decided to put in about $100 so I had enough to only play 1-2% of my bankroll in tourneys SnG’s etc.
I started off fine a couple of cashes here n there, but then a bout 2 weeks ago, it never been the same since. Ive lost every single race and been sucked out on every single time I play.
I even began to think some other players who sucked out on me could see my hole cards!
I’m soooo mad I’m always losing.
In say a tourney where top 4 pay out, Im coming 5th. where I have AA, someone has KK, he hits his K on river etc.
One night a few days ago. I was in a tourney and got knocked out read this!:
Im late position with AQ, I raise 4 x Blind, bearing in mind everyone else had folded or limped, but they all fold anyway. Guy in SB calls.
Flop A Q 2…
I bet big, I mean 3/4 pot coz there flush draw…
He RE RAISES ME!!!!!!
I call knowing Im ahead…
Turn…7
Im still ok I have AAQQ,
I bet big, he min raises, so I push!!!
He snap calls!!! like I’ve never seen before!!!
He flips 72 off suit..
I m happy coz I know I’m still ahead.
River…..7?
Now tell me if I’m wrong, and I have SEVERAL instances similar to this where I’m ahead and someone with utter sh*t snap calls with nowt, and ends up winning.
But c’mon please!!! U can’t say its just BAD LUCK when it happens over and over again!!!
Its as if they can see the cards and they know they are going to win, therefore that why they snap call so fast with nowt! Why would he re raise me with the worst hand, and call with bottom pair on flop when I have bet out knowing that I raised pre flop????
I’m sure something is going on… a bit sussed to me?
I consider myself a solid strong player, who would win/cash in many tourneys as I do alot of the time in live events, but to lose/get sucked out on, or whatever in EVERY SINGLE TOURNEY 4-5 per night x the last 3 weeks, thats erm…thats 105 tourneys with NO WINS????
I’m sorry but that is just not me…I can’t see how full tilt has NOT been manipulated or people can hack into it somehow, because this LONG LOSING streak of mine is just UNREAL!!!!
online poker is 100% rigged. they cannot create a true rng. ive played at a couple different sites and they are all rigged. i have been profitable, but this is fighting the rig and capitalizing on terrible players. but i do believe in certain tourneys, there are predetermined cashers, to where atc they play they will hit. also ive noticed when u make a withdrawal, the bad beats and the real full tilt starts. but right after a deposit it seems like you have all the luck in the world. its rigged but im still playing hopefully they will be exposed soon enough and then it might be a real game. not to mention you have people colluding and rigging it already. they are not governed by anyone so they can do whatever they want. i hope all the owners of these companies get bacon AIDS.
hi all, ive been playing at ftp now for quite sometime and the things i see are really beyond a joke, i dont want to bore you all by going all the way through it but lets say this, if it was random then why have i been dealt 6 2 off etc one after each other the same time 5,6,7,times on the bounce, why do i see flops such as 777, 888, 999, 10 10 10 etc, why does it mostly favour the bigger stacks, why does it always seem to keep the disconnected players in the game longer once there down to there last blinds, the system always gives them a good flop, why is there always a fuckin jerk who pops out of nowhere so quick to defend this sham of a poker site, im telling ya, this site is so fucking rigged its beyond imagination.
for anyone who decides to put there own money on this totally criminal corrupt run site then please listen to someone like me whos been there and done it, and no im not saying this because ive lost my entire bankroll, im saying this because the statistics speak for themselves, belive me, you will end up losing after a good run of fortune because the system will and i mean WILL fuckin rape ya
all that i can say is if you dont believe me then try for yourself but dont say i didnt warn you.
its about time this site got investigated.
I too am a “winning player” winning about $2,000/month at the live casino. I deposited $600 into Fulltilt and made $200 the very first day, everything seemed normal. The 2nd day I lost $600+ and reviewed all the losing hands and discovered a common pattern. Each time I lost, I was favoured pre flop or post flop. All were setups, designed to get the money in either pre flop or post flop, with big time coolers on the turn/river. It really felt like someone was creating these setups behind a curtain and I was being conned. The more bad beats you suffer, the worst you may play and lose your money faster, and hopefully deposit more, trying to chase bonuses or points. Do not get sucked into the game of chasing bad money with good, play for fun online only and stick to casinos and do not ever send in any documentation with private information if they want it for withdraw purposes.
The 3 tournaments I tried, each time getting knocked out with top set to a runner runner flush or straight, when the appropriate bets were made.
Fulltilt fleeces pros like Mike Matusow, Patrick Antonius and whoever wins on this scam site, maybe connected to the insiders. The statistics speak for themselves.
The servers are hosted in Costa Rica and they are connected to the same tribe in Canada that was connected to the Ultimate Bet/AP cheating scandal with the super user account, nobody was ever arrested or identified.
Folks it is the perfect crime, they operate outside US Laws and have convinced the poker community that it is safe game as they recruit “pro players” like Phil Ivey to endorse it.
Where there is smoke, there is fire, and where there is fame and fortune to be made, there is cheating.
Look at Baseball, Wrestling, Boxing, Olympics, you get the idea.
Also if you need to cash out, you need to provide identification. Do you know they maybe stealing your identify or using the information you provide for illegal purposes? My advice, don’t play online, you will feel good here and there, but it is designed and programmed to fleece you by delivering bad beat after bad beat or monsters vs monsters. It will put you on tilt and try to extract you for everything you got.
Stick to the casinos and the local tournaments/vegas, you will get real poker games there.
Remember you are playing against players online who may be a bot, the deck maybe rigged, players sharing information over the phone/msn/side by side through different isp providers, insiders and when you lose and complain, the cheaters will ridicule you as being bad at poker and do not have good money management skills or is a losing player.
The criminals will be punished, in this life or next. I am sure they will be caught very soon.
full tilt poker as now banned me from using there forum because i mentioned the word rigged
i have found out why full tilt banned me from there forum now, its because i sent a post to there forum about the chris ferguson challenge which went a bit like this,
“personally i think full tilt poker paid mr ferguson quite a bit of cash to tell a lie about his challenge (winning 10.000 dollars from a freeroll)
i think ftp made this up and paid chris a huge sum of cash so that it would boost full tilt poker’s player database and get people to think that they too can do this too going from nothing to 10.000 dollars in a short period of time.
.
if you think about it, why didnt this get recorded to show everyone evidence of this accomplishment.
this site lies through its teeth to gain an advantage over other poker sites to try and stay ahead, and will go to any lengths to achieve this.
so all because i had an opinion about this cheating corrupt criminal run site i get banned from there forum,
so it prooves that this site only likes to hear people talk good about this site ,,and that they hate anyone who as a bad opinion about it. im not saying everything is bad about this site but theres certainly something dodgy going on with it. ive been playing on it too long to realize this.
the following is a post made by gunfighterx
I would like to preface this message by saying that I have won alot of money at poker. I won a big jackpot on another site (better site (it was pure luck)) and ultimately have profitted from internet poker.
With that in mind I will say this. Full TilT is corrupt, I would assume that the other sites are as well.
Anyone who disagrees with me I encourage you to offer your argument. Assuming it is not the typical and flawed argument “It is not in the websites interest”. It is in a internet casino’s interest to:
Keep players at the tables
Limit the amount a player wins
Award bad play
This is because it keeps money on the tables. It is impossible to track. It contributes to and encourages compulsive gamblers which comprise a majority of online players.
There is an abundant amount of proof that FULL TILT is corrupt. However the service providers will not allow that information to be observed (it has been requested and rejected by the Fed. however it is out of US jurisdiction and as such cannot be audited).
Although the advocates of FULL TILT would like the burden of proof to be on the client, (usually by implying it is not in their interest to control the online gambling environment), Ultimately the onus is on “the corporation providing the service” to provide 100% proof that they are not cheating their clients. Hiring a private law firm to do it is not 100%. You can not hire your own experts to investigate your own problems, the cigarette companies used this tactic for years and it ultimately backfired.
Take into consideration that these companies are offshore, completely unaccountable due to the nature of their product, (games of “chance” which are easily manipulated considering the technology) and there is no regulation by the government or any independent bodies that could disprove cheating in EVERYDAY Operations their is only one logical conclusion. INTERNET GAMBLING IS A BAD BET!!! (Hand for hand there is no regulation, think software, think bell curve and then think about how random the RNG really is.)
Phil Ivey and Howard Lederer would like you to believe otherwise but they are just whores who slowly bilk individuals of there money. I would like to hear oopposing arguments and possibly some that may agree but I “bet” this is the wrong forum for that.
PS If you can not have a rational mature debate about this than please do not respond (or go fuch yourself) if so I look forward to your comments.
The Pro you’ll never know
then this arsehole called theshadowplay is the sort of person that always pops up out of the blue to defend these sites, this is the sort of player i was on about in one of my previous comments, now this person named theshadowplay responded to gunfighterx’s post which went like this
So don’t play here.
Abundant proof that isn’t there, evil offshore companies, you KNOWING one specific site is corrupt while assuming others are as well…
Guess I’m not playing here anymore.
P.S. This isn’t the debate on online poker integrity forum.
how i hate pricks like these people, always there to stand up for corruption, TOSSER
another typical bullshit rigged for action setup by full tilt joker
Full Tilt Poker Game #15315450818: $100 United Kingdom Freeroll (112137051), Table 183 – 15/30 – No Limit Hold’em – 15:41:18 ET – 2009/10/13
Seat 1: dra9on (1,635)
Seat 2: fillage (1,605), is sitting out
Seat 3: spurs4everagain (1,455), is sitting out
Seat 4: nemesis147 (1,480) <———- me
Seat 5: colino50 (1,410)
Seat 6: riverking991 (1,500)
Seat 8: betallin9 (1,500)
Seat 9: papilion (1,410)
colino50 posts the small blind of 15
riverking991 posts the big blind of 30
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to nemesis147 [4s 4h]
betallin9 has 15 seconds left to act
betallin9 calls 30
papilion calls 30
dra9on folds
fillage folds
spurs4everagain folds
nemesis147 calls 30
colino50 calls 15
riverking991 raises to 180
betallin9 calls 150
papilion calls 150
nemesis147 calls 150
colino50 folds
*** FLOP *** [5d 3c 6s]
riverking991 has 15 seconds left to act
riverking991 checks
betallin9 checks
papilion has 15 seconds left to act
papilion bets 240
nemesis147 raises to 1,305, and is all in
riverking991 folds
betallin9 raises to 1,320, and is all in
papilion calls 990, and is all in
betallin9 shows [7d 9c]
papilion shows [Kd Kc]
nemesis147 shows [4s 4h]
Uncalled bet of 15 returned to betallin9
*** TURN *** [5d 3c 6s] [8c]
*** RIVER *** [5d 3c 6s 8c] [Js]
betallin9 shows a straight, Nine high
nemesis147 shows a pair of Fours
betallin9 wins the side pot (150) with a straight, Nine high
papilion shows a pair of Kings
betallin9 wins the main pot (4,440) with a straight, Nine high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4,590 Main pot 4,440. Side pot 150. | Rake 0
Board: [5d 3c 6s 8c Js]
Seat 1: dra9on didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: fillage didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: spurs4everagain didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: nemesis147 (button) showed [4s 4h] and lost with a pair of Fours
Seat 5: colino50 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 6: riverking991 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 8: betallin9 showed [7d 9c] and won (4,590) with a straight, Nine high
Seat 9: papilion showed [Kd Kc] and lost with a pair of Kings
This doesn’t show anything other than the fact that you are not a great poker player. Aside from the fact that pushing with [4][4] in that situation is ignorant, the odds of winning after everyone called all-in on the flop are:
[K][K] 68% or about 2 in 3
[9]]7] 17% or about 1 in 6
[4][4] 15% or about 1 in 6
You are calling a site a scam over one “bad beat” that did not even happen to you, and it was not even that bad – in that situation the favorite loses 1 out of every 3 times, hardly a longshot.
After playing literally thousands of hands on numerous online poker sites and probably hundreds of thousands of “REAL” poker hands i would bet my bankroll that Full Tilt Poker is a fix. They want action so bad that they have shot themsleves in the foot by making it so obvious.
One very common trick to get people into big hands is this:
One player will get an Ace and a high card ( Say J, Q, or K), while another player in the same hand will hit trips with smaller cards while the player with A/high card hits on thier J, Q or K. When you have trips and top pair-top kicker in a hand together there will be more action.
Not to mention the unbeleivable suck outs by chasers.
The reason people chase on this site is because THEY HIT. They are familiar with the FTP algorithms and more often then it should they will get paid off.
I AM NOT AN ANGRY PLAYER WHO HAS LOST MONEY. I don’t think i will ever be in the red from my poker playing, but this is the truth.
PLEASE visit PETITIONSPOT.COM and sign the petition against FTP’s bad business practice. And keep in mind that the gaming commission regulating these sites is an undermanned group based out of a native reserve who has little to no knowledge or access to the true software being used by FTP.
Please BOYCOTT Full Tilt Poker and get as many people as you can to sign this petition. If you love poker it is the only way to save the game from the hands of these greedy SOB’s.
Does anybody know how to contact “Bob Smith” about his December 29, 2008 comment? I am a lawyer, I make my living litigating consumer class actions against corporations that cheat consumers. I also play on Full Tilt. Sometimes well, sometimes poorly, but I notice the exact same patterns and situations that many others have noticed.
My most pathetic beat story involves having pocket AA cracked by A8o after the last of my bankroll went in on an Ax8 flop — and the turn and river then came 88 to give the villain quads. I guess that’s one way to secure another deposit.
I am very tired of seeing my SNG short-stack pocket AA PF shove called — and my hand invariably cracked — by the big stack’s K8s (or similar) JUNK on FTP.
Yes, I understand ICM play in SNGs, and I understand that mathematically, it’s often the correct call depending on the stacks. I also recognize that at times I am prone to playing up, over what my bankroll can be expected to withstand with expected variance. My bad. But it’s remarkable to me how many times in a row I can have the best hand when the money goes in and it gets cracked when there is an identifiable financial incentive to Full Tilt in my losing the hand.
Just unreal stuff, and consistently the cards have soured in an obvious manner after I had deposited and gone on a decent run. Go figure. If what Bob Smith says is credible, and objectively provable, I will try to figure out a way to do something about it.
Cadernero, this has happened me over and over, it goes back to their coding; allowing big hands to face off against each other, creating bigger pots and more rebuys/deposits.
Their goal is to put you on tilt, so you play worst and lose money faster and deposit faster. Some people stop at $600, and some people will stop at $3million, their job is to fleece you for your theoretical maximum. I feel bad for all those people out there who bought into this fantasy poker thinking their skills will make them like the next Phil Ivey or Tom Dwan only to lose their entire savings/house etc.
The facts are, their program is not checked by a true 3rd party that is trusted and verfied, their servers and company is located offshore in Costa Rica, where US Authorities cannot audit/regulate, their programming code has been verified by programmers as being rigged to favour action and you do not know who you are playing against, a bot? a team? a insider? Their gaming license is issued by the same Tribe in Canada that was linked to the Ultimate Bet/AP cheating scandal. They can flip a switch at any given time and fleece your money with unreal bad beats and people will tell you, you are going through some bad luck/variance lol what a cash grab eh? THE PERFECT CRIME. If your $600 bankroll cannot survive the online $1/$2 NL game and you are a winning poker player with stats to back it up, it is obvious you are being cheated online.
The site is rigged to help them generate money faster, kinda sad as this is so obvioius now with so many players coming forward confirming their own findings/experiences online.
Nothing will change until everyone stops playing and think they are playing a fair game when they are not. They are operating outside US laws and have bribed many people to convince the mass that they are legit, when they are in fact a online scam.
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I used to play online poker on about 4-5 other sites before they got shut down for U.S residents. I didn’t get rich but I made money on all of them and I consider myself a far better player now. I have tried to play on Full Tilt on and off for about a year now, I started by playing the cash games and got destroyed over and over and finally decided to only play heads up Sit and Go’s. (That way I know people aren’t colluding which seems to happen in the live games.) Over the last two days I have lost all in with KK 7 times and QQ once to someone who had ace 4 or ace 5 and each time they flopped two pair. Each of the 9 times the money is all in preflop, I don’t know how they even are in the hand. Every time! Its just too weird they always have the ace 4 or ace 5 and flop two pair each time. And are willing to put all their chips in with it! When we’re even stacked! Even lost with QQ against Q6 off all in preflop and AA against AQ. Along with losing with AQ against A-8, or flopping 3 8′s and losing to someone with pocket 77 all in and they river a 7, and too many other ridiculous beats to mention. I do not know if it is rigged but I just can’t play on it anymore. I permanently deactivated my account, I’ll stick to the casino. When I see that the person I am playing has 3 outs and I know they are going to hit it drives me crazy. The other stupid thing is that when I do win its when I get it all in with AJ against AK, 88 against KK, etc. Then I hit the 2 or 3 outer. I win more tourneys when I put my money in behind then ahead.
Does anyone have any feedback about PokerStars or any other sites? I wish Pokeroom/Party Poker/Pacific Poker would reopen. I would run bad occasionally on them but nothing like this. Its probably just really bad luck but I don’t want to worry anymore that its rigged or the algorithm is broken or something.
Ive just withdrawed the amount I had left in my account now.
It’s the same tendency as all the other pages I’ve tried, only so extreme here that it is surrealistic.
They let u win big the first few days, and then the surreal strike of bad beats appears. U wouldn’t believe what I’ve seen the last few days.
I know that deuces will bust Aces from time to time. Might even happen twice in a row. If u are real unlucky maybe three.
But I have had bad beats like this the last 25-30 $22 sit’n'gos now.
It’s just stupid to it’s bad luck.
I do believe though that this site will be busted soon. As someone said, it’s too obvious here. It’s so obvious that u start to expect one of the only three outs that can beat u will come on the turn or most likely the river. Wich it does at atleast half of the time.
Hope the creators of this fuckin fraud gets locked up one day and have to share cell with Dennis Rader. Fucking criminals.
BTW anyone who knows a site where it actually is fair game?? Would be great, cause i really love the game.
ok, ive been playing online holdem for 9 years now. I deposit about once a year. usually 100 bucks. I play SNG’s only.
also, to let everyone know how conservtive of a player i am, i play 100x the buy in. so for my first 2 weeks here my luck is rather stagnant.. i was up to 105 at one point but mostly fluctuating around 90. Then today. Down to 20. Every flush draw hits, all in calls with nothing getting runner runner to win and about %95 of coin tosses lost. at one point i lost 32 coin tosses in a row. AK beat consistently by A rag. you name it. I cant flip a coin 32 times and get it to land heads like that….the odds are virtually impossible. When most pros recommend you play 30x the buyin and i do a hundred how in the hell do i manage to lose my entire bankroll…in one day!
IF THIS ISNT DEFINITIVE PROOF THAT THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THEIR DEALING KERNEL I DONT KNOW WHAT WILL CONVINCE YOU.
been through the fult tilt rape twice now separated by six months. yeah, full tilt’s not rigged and oswald shot JFK.
bob smith story is extremely curious. is full tilt willing to sue him for libel/perjury? if not, they’re just hoping the information remains suppressed. the only response from the full tilt PR staff so far is to question whether or not bob smith actually worked for full tilt. if that is in question, then full tilt should take legal action given the seriousness of his allegations.
my bankroll strategy is vulnerable to ridicule by proponents of the site’s authenticity. i deposited in increments of the minimum $30. i would most often buy in to $.25/$.50 tables for $10. somewhere within the first 2 deposits i would hit a couple of a runs that would take to between $100 and $200 in the account. then the full tilt insanity would hit. set up after set up with hands i couldn’t fold. sometimes i would go on tilt but mostly i would deposit another $30 and play just out of disbelief that the set ups could keep happening. after a certain point, i would get no runs and only consecutive losing hands that appear prearranged.
sometimes i was short-stacked and other times not but never did i make large deposits.
i have gone on bad runs in live games and even played with crooked dealers. the full tilt algorithm generated the feeling of a pattern similar to crooked dealers only much smoooother.
having played plenty of free online backgammon sites, i don’t think any online gaming is truly random. the roles seem weighted in backgammon and unrealistic at pogo and other sites. however, what goes on on full tilt seems to be a larger conspiracy to extract a series of deposits.
there are certain correlations between the full tilt bad streaks and live game bad streaks which allow full tilt to hide behind a veil of realism. however, the instant rushes for new players and players who have not played in a while combined with the gradual slide into a series of impossible situations differs drastically from live hold ‘em.
i’m sure i’m not the first player who said, “what the hell” and deposited a hundred more dollars just to see if the pattern would continue unabated once the downturn started. eventually, you get to the point where you realize it’s rigged and it’s not worth your money anymore.
this thread is awesome. i wish i hadn’t thrown my money away but i will follow the people who step forward with their stories which confirm my experience and hope that full tilt eventually dies. my $1000 is nothing compared to the collapse of a multi-million dollar scam. GET THE WORD OUT!
i intend to get the word out m8, these bastards ought to be brought to justice. theyve got me so hooked i just cant seem to stop now, but i love poker, i just wished online poker was fair and not filled with cheats and bots
I cant believe im reading this it all makes perfect sense. I’m also wondering why when i try out another site all of a sudden im winning 90 player sit n go’s. I have an awsome ROI live but online I struggle ,always being right with reads and calls but somehow losing anyway. Are all online site the same? I am so disheartened.
after putting 1500 dollars on full tilt joker, and after all the bullshit ive been through i have had one bonus in over a year, it was a 50 dollar bonus from an affiliate, so it really wasnt ftp which gave it me, so you can say i have had nothing from full tilt poker after this site has taken over 1500 dollars from me until yesterday when ftp finally decided after all the complaining i have done to give me a 100 dollar bonus, but wait, there is a catch, i have to get so many points to clear just 10 lousy dollars at a time so there expecting me to put even more cash on there site
http://cid-709a61b58492906c.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/full%20tilt%20jokers?nl=1&uc=2&isFromRichUpload=1
i just cant believe how tight fisted and how corrupt this site really is, they get you in the keep net by offering you incentives at the begginning and when you spend all that cash on here they just toss you to one side and look after the newcomers better than there loyal cutomers.
fuck you too ftp
Update: I’ve sent e-mails to everybody I could find on the web who professed to have worked for Full Tilt, tiltware, or Pocket Kings. Not a single person responded. That either means there’s nothing to this theory that the algorithms create big hands — it’s like “seeing” the Virgin Mary or some other pattern in a potato chip — or that there’s something very real that nobody will talk about.
The one guy I located who could actually and truthfully answer all questions is Jack Bates. He now lives in Placitas, New Mexico. He can be reached at jack@tiltedplacitan.net. He did not respond to my e-mail. His resume can be found at: http://www.tiltedplacitan.net/jack_resume_current.html
It says that he was responsible at Full Tilt for the “Design, implementation and statistical validation of all random number generation and software shuffling algorithms used to fairly deal hands in high-stakes card games.” (Jack, why qualify that statement with the modifier “high stakes”? Aren’t the medium and low stakes games also dealt fairly? Hmmmm…)
He goes on to say that he was the #5 employee in the company, and he touts his “absolute honesty and integrity”. I invite him to take a position on the allegations raised by “Bob Smith”.
You guys do the same, we’ll see what surfaces.
http://nemesis147.blogspot.com/2009/11/site-investigating.html
I stop playing at this site a few weeks ago, everytime the bubble approaches in the Tourney, I get a hand like KK short stacked and I push pre flop, the big stack calls with AA and busts me out and final table starts without me. It was so obvious the program was looking to speed up the game and eliminate me, what a Joke of a site. I hope all these guys go to jail and then maybe they can get a taste how it feels like to be fuked.
Same thing happens to me every time, get KK or QQ in the BB with the short stack, push and get called by one player (doesn’t matter what he has) and he wins, I make the money live but bubble 90% of the time online. I have lost with AA or KK to every hand imaginable online when I am down to the wire but I those same hands hold up well in live action down to the wire. We tend to remember our bad beats and I get hit by 1, 2 , or 3 outers 10% of the time in live games and 90% of the time online…….can’t argue with that.
Hey folks, great post.
It seems like the big up and the big down 10 days later the up didn’t only happen to me. As one of you said, they fu…g put you on tilt after some insane bad beats, you play worse, lose even more, and then deposit again (I didn’t, thank God), God it looks like there’s a community of cheated players ready to f.k them up the arse, sounds good.
They just deserve it, they’re such morons. I haven’t played poker for 10 years, but after 20K hands on FT, I’m negative and I know for a fact that I’ve been winning over the past 6 months on Cake Poker. This swing really hit my confidence on the tables, for one night, I was like: ‘what the hell did I do wrong here’? I never experienced such a feeling and just cashed out. I just went back there for this $100 ridiculous holiday bonus, and of course I’m running good so far after less than 1.000 hands… I’m going to cash out though, fuck those crooks.
(however, if you go to poker tabke ratings, hehe you can see winners on Tilt, so wtf? Is is paranoia about rigging? I’m lost, people seem to bloody win, maybe they just rig the small stakes only, correct?)
I REALLY WOULD LIKE TO KNOW PLEASE
(and I think sharing our experiences could benefit to all of us)
What do you think of both Bodog and PokerStars??????? 15K hands (cash game) on Bodog and break even so far, couple of nasty beats…. on Stars I would like some feedback, is it fair there, or rigged as well? Less rigged perhaps, but rigged? Never played cash there. I also played a few hands on Absolute, won lost won lost, it didn’t seem to work for me there, it could be just variance though.
But is there truly variance in online poker?
I hope I’ll get some interesting replies to this, cheers and gl on these rigged tables
hey since I red all this I been playing backwards ,keep the low cards(fold the high cards) and I been makin $$$$$$
I think I’m finally at my wits end with this site. I’m a winning player, look me up “MisterElephant” on OPR or whatever. You’ll do well to turn off the estimated “rebuys” as I simply do not rebuy or add-on. I digress…
I’ve been playing on this site off and on for the past three years. I’ll run good from time to time but then just start getting such absurdly bad luck that I have to shake my head. Constantly losing to three outters AK dropping to AQ, AQ to A9, etc, generally in late tournament preflop all-ins. However, this past week I’ve just witnessed some insane BS, too much to push on.
I’ve been consistantly losing coin-flips, which happens, but shouldn’t happen as frequently as I have been. I can’t catch an ace when I have A/x and can’t avoid an ace hitting when I hold a pair.
Lost a heads-up game, flopping a flush, somehow my opponent rivers the Royal Flush, how does that happen in heads-up!
I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve lost with an overpair to someone flopping a set, after a preflop all-in.
I’ve also lost count of how many times I’ve suckered someone into going all-in with top pair, inferior kicker. Generally it’s been on boards of Ace/x/x and I’ve held no worse than AJ, they’ve held no better than A/ten. The ten hits the turn or river everytime after they make their bad call or bad push.
I’ve suffered a lot of losses to runner-runner too. Most painfully to a rainbow board, in which I flopped a set. A player bet, I re-raised, and he opted to bluff all-in, shortly before the money in a tournament, with his AK suited. He hits runner-runner for the flush, I’m KO’d. Our stacks going in were almost even, and that hand put him up as one of the chip leaders.
I don’t know, perhaps this all sounds like sour grapes, but look me up “MisterElephant” and ask yourself why would a winning player complain or be so suspicious? Look at my percentages in the money, and my percents reaching the mid-late and late stages of tournaments, they’re insane, especially for the past few months, yet my ROI has been negative since May.
I went to Vegas two weeks ago, played in five tournaments. Instantly ran into bad luck and bubbled my first one holding Jacks and losing to Ace Jack, ok that happens… but then I chopped first place five ways, in my next tournament, finished 4th in the following one, donked my fourth tourney and then flat out won the fifth and last one I had time for.
In fact I’m pretty sure had I not been so hung-over, I may have won the one I agreed to the chop in, but fatigue and the previous four nights of drinking had finally caught up to me.
I guess I knew the risks going in, but as soon as the remainder of my once amazing online roll $5K down to about $70. Is gone, I’m done. The comical part of that roll is I probably would’ve cashed out more at the time, but Full Tilt was mysterious having “problems” after I had made my previous cash out.
Believe what you want, but one last time, LOOK ME UP, why would I lie?
I have been playing fulltilt for about 2 years now. I have been denying it from the start but now I am starting to feel like they are rigged. My story is a little redundant…..I am a good live player, I know the odds, I play very tight, and I cash more tournies than I lose. FTP though, wow, I can take a bad beat, I can take a night or two of bad beats when I’m on a bad run, but this?? I also find this funny, and I’m sure it cannot be coincidence. 99% of my beats are on the turn or river, when I have a good hand and the flop favors me I usually bet the shit out of it to discourage chasers. If they fold great, when they call with rags you can seriously call out the cards that will be coming on the turn and river to give them the unlikely win. If you look up the last hand and look at the odds, it is truly remarkable, a person will have +/- 2% chance to hit runner runner 4 and 7 to hit a backdoor straight, and sure as shit, they’re going to hit it. I’m not a conspiracy theorist by any stretch of the imagination, but 2 years of this shit and I’m seeing a pattern here. Thank God I love poker but don’t invest cash in online games. I prefer to see my opponents when I play, so I play for free in online games only to better my game, practice per say. So I haven’t lost anything to fulltilt, I’m not being a whiner that is making excuses for gambling away his paychecks, I just smell shit everytime I log on to the damn site.
Definitely fixed. Otherwise I’d never lose a hand (and certainly not to Durrr).
OK, obviously kidding. I don’t think it’s intentionally fixed for anyone’s benefit or to create excitement with more high hands. But I do think the algorithm creates a lot of non-random patterns. The frequency of simultaneous pocket pairs on the same deal, for instance, just seems way too high to be random.
Of course that’s anecdotal, so it and $5 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks. But it’s my opinion and I’m sticking with it. I’d love to see someone do an analysis of the hands actually dealt on FTP and PokerStars.
Do this once, bring up 2 tables and play for a bit and take notice of your starting hands do they ever share a similarity?
Does the flop ever favor certain numbers at certain times?
Do those numbers seem similar on both tables your playing?
It is obvious the only people that win on fulltilt are bots and or insiders. If you dig deep enough, bots that fleece real players their hard earned cash, higher tier bots in turn fleece those bots to confuse anyone trying to follow the money trail. The different tiers and layers of bots fleecing is so complex at the end, the money ends up in a insiders account/rake and or perhaps owners/insiders of the crooked site.
I have just begun playing poker on line at Sportwsbet.com and have been met with some situations as described in the above letters and have totally lost confidence now in any on line card games.
Dealt Pocket K/K with a small stack I am first to call and raise 1/4 of my chips.
Large stack has A/J off suit and re raises me.
Flop turns out 8 8 6. I again raise the same amount and am re raised…I now go all in and am called and guess what… turn and river card are J / J……BULL SHIT!! before that I was seeing situations as described above,the logic behind these scenarios makes sense in the business world.
My question before I go and with draw all of my money is has any one dealt with this at “Sportsbet.Com?
Large stack has A/J off suit I raise 1/3 of my chips
yep – its kinda weird there!!!
if u see bad beats try out the following – to me it works:
ask them if they are houseplayers – u wont get an answer but u make it into the money after this question in like 80%!
i think thats very weird! lol
Looks to me the more I play on ft that it probably is rigged. Seems as though whenever you are the big stack you will often be in front on the flop or you nearly always hit the turn this has happened to me often.
I know if I’m not the big stack and someone bets on the turn they usually have me. So I may as well fold.
FullTilt is phony as a three dollar bill. I don’t play for real money, just the fake stuff. The winning hands are so ridiculously good I would never throw away real money. Tonight I had AJ suited. Flop was AKK. I laughed knowing someone had a FullTilt monster. Sure enough someone had AK. Anyone who plays at FT knows these hands happen so much more frequently than in a live game. It’s not even close. The other day I had 22. I have seen this scenario before. I rode that F@@ker to the river with big bets and sure enough I got a duece on the river. One of the other guys had AK for two pairs. Just ridiculous. Then you see a guy(bot) who’s been playing super tight start going crazy with big raises. Then raises a huge bet with an all in with J2 and no pair knowing the other guy will call because he’s pot committed. And this is preflop. Anyone who doesn’t think this site is a scam is an idiot. As long as it’s not for real money it’s crazy entertainment.
Phil H., if increasing the frequency of high pockets on the same deal, i.e., AA vs. KK, way above random is NOT designed to create bigger pots, beats, and more frequent deposits, then it certainly is having some unintended consequences.
Many, many players at the lower stakes play with stack sizes that mean it’s all going in by the 3rd or 4th PF raise.
Thereafter, they are at the mercy of any other “special” algorithm that may (or may not ) be in use to influence the ultimate outcome of the hand in such a way that would act to “fairly” and evenly re-distribute the wealth in a way that defies the normal odds. The theory that makes the most sense so far is that such an algorithm is FTs best effort — at the lower stakes — to fight bot nets.
If you really would love to see someone do an analysis of the randomness of FT deals, tell us your idea of how a person would go about doing it: Who should do it?; Where should the data should come from?; What should they look for?; and How should they should look for it? I’d split the cost with you. What do you say?
I just read this whole thing have been on Fulltilt since the first couple months it started…I am about even on fulltilt ONLY because of an insane run i went on winning $1 dollar in teh satellite to teh ferguson, starting at 25 cent sitngos worked it up to 1900 in 35 hours…cashed out 1500…changed nothing about the way i was playing and the last 400 was instantly taken.
That being said I am the absolute utmost tight player that (becuase of the site) was forced to adjust to their completley unrandom number generator…I mean ridiculsouly tight no chances folds everything unless I’m 100% sure im way ahead even folding knowing im ahead on big drwa boards according the player and situation, with the logic the if you anre’t inthe hand you can’t be douped into a beat no matter what…
That is not poker at all but what the site forces you to do to atempt to be a winning player…even having done this at all times Fulltilt has proven to me time and time again it doesnt matter, when they dont want you to win you won’t hands down…more than one flopping quads losing to runner runner higher quads…
Like I said been on the site since it started I am very intellgent and mathematically inclined and played live poker religiously way before online was around…I don’t know about teh validity of Bob Smith however his multi layered rig as well as all the sitations he described were all exact thigns i had figured out on my own already…even knowing this and taking into account thier garabage and adjusting its still useless I ran so bad at 9 person sitngo te other day the entire table was chatting and compltley convinced there was no possible way excpet for one person, the one that put consecutive two out beats on me…coincednece right? Anyone naive enough to believe this a freindly volunteer poker community that they arent woried about profit and maximizing without being regualted is just keeping thier eyes closed…it would make my life to see those crooks brought to justice…
I don’t have much expeirence with the other sites but everyone seems to say the same I thought it was bad until I came until I came to fulltilt and it was blatantly obvious….they did shoot themsleves in the foot when they get really exposed and they will, all hell will break loose…
Oh and consumer lawyer I seriously commend any work you’ve done or do on this and as i read what James Bates claimed as soon as i saw “high-stakes” modifier in his statement i almost shit my pants…fucing new age crooks
What a bunch of crying donks!
Rigged, rigged. I’m sick of playing at this site for money. I used to play the fee site maybe 4-5 times a week. I was an average player….I got better and looked into the $$$ site. After I looked into it I still played the free site and wouldn’t you know it, I started to win and get really lucky some times to lucky. I won at least once a week and some times 2 or 3 tournaments in a row. I would usually make the final table 80% of the time. I played site and go 90 tournament. I finally went to the pay site and added $50. I played about the same amount of times and the same style. I haven’t even made it in the top 40% yet. Don’t even get me started on the bad bets I been getting…..it’s just not normal. Anyway, I got $10 left in my account and I was going to take it out but you need at least $50 for an epay account (whatever that is) or a $100 balance to be paid by check and you need to send them all kinds of hard copy of your drivers license, address proof, SS#, bank account ##…..yeah right. No more FTP from me after the $10 run out.
anything that is not regulated or audited is crooked and full of thieves, sites may tell you they are audited but if you look closely at who does the auditing or regulation by bogus tribes and “gaming commissions”, these are the very same people stealing from innocent good players online who don’t know any better or are part of the network of fleecing.
I have been playing on fulltilt for a year or so. And yesterday I had it! I never believed that it was rigged but after this it’s just to unrealistic to believe it.
I was playing cash games, and I got delt pocket 55, and on the flop i hit my five’s. There was one other guy that raised before the flop, and i believed that he would have A,K, A,Q, AJ or something like that. We bought move all in, and he shows AA’A.. Well, that can happen? But then I got pissed of and entered a sng tourney. I did very fine and I got delt pocket kings. The other guy moved all inn on me, i called. He had pocket Jacks. He hits his jack on the flop, but then I hit my king on the turn. But on the river card, yes, he hits his last jack…THATS JUST TOO UNREALISTIC!! And im not done yet. After losing that hand im bleeding chips. 2-3 hands after I get delt pocket AA. I move all in, and the other guy call me..If i remeber right, he was sitting there with 10,9. And guess what, the flop is J,7,8. Yep, he hits the nuts..and I lose.
I think im done with playing on fulltilt…geez
Same Circus, Same Tent
I hadn’t played on FTP in quite awhile, so I decided, against my better judgment, to give the site the benefit of the doubt and test my perceptions. I played carefully, I played patiently, I didn’t have a lot of variance. I watched AA vs. KK go against each other a lot of times; I watched quads hit in two consecutive hands — but I wasn’t involved in any of those situations. I won a bunch of little pots, I lost a bunch of little pots, but I was really conscientious about exercising pot control. I didn’t want to play a big pot until I thought I had a huge edge. Today, in nearly two hours of play, I got my money all-in, after the flop, exactly three times. Each time I had a single opponent who called with a hand that was heavily dominated. My three hands were 81.3%, 91.6%, and 94.6% favorites to win when the money went in, as follows:
(1) I come over the top of a pot-sized C-bet to get all-in with QQ vs. villain’s KJ to an AT7 flop (I correctly read him as no ace, no pair, and now it looks like he’ll have trouble filling up that gutshot, heh heh) — and a turn K comes, and then another river K for good measure. OK, 4 to 1 is no guarantee.
(2) I call a 80BB post-flop raise to get all-in with AA vs. villain’s JJ to a 477 flop — and sure enough, a miracle J comes on the river. Apparently 12 to 1 isn’t a good enough advantage to hold up here. OK, I’ll try again.
(3) I very patiently check-call the flop and check-call myself all-in after the turn with JJ vs. villain’s QQ to the following board: J285, and — you guessed it — once the money was all in, the Q comes on the river. Yes, 19 to 1 is still not a good enough edge to hold up here at FTP — if there are more cards to come when the money goes in.
Yep, it’s plausible to lose any one of these hands, but to lose all three? And sadly, I wasn’t really all that surprised — I’ve come to expect these kinds of beats on this site, and just came back to see if things are still the same (they are). It’s pretty difficult, at least for me, to try to NOT get the money all-in in these situations, but it seems that for the type of outrageous beats I take on FTP, that particular action seems to be the trigger.
You are playing bots and the site is selecting cards that can beat your hands once the money goes in. This happens to everyone I know and they are surprised these clowns are still in business.
Its obviouse to all who play on any online site that they are all rigged with bots of various low and high level systems to rob punters….
Pokerstars Fulltilt and the numerous others all use the facilities of ofshore havens to run their crooked businesses ……..
They all have the same operationg system to rob and thieve from the online players ie setup really good hands to the punters to get them to call and entice the allins and give the company bots the better hand on the turn or river…..
Yes we win now and again to keep us going but the cards do not follow a natural random pattern but one setup by a man made algorythm that is also keyed to allow the strange outcomes we see.
…
We all need to get together to sue the pants of the fucking crooks cause that is what they are……..
What we need is proof ……
I have played on a few tables (spread over 6 mths …2 in total ) where there was some thing funny going on ie 9 players only two of us betting…. eventually we agreed to take turns….funny as fuck….and after a while the other hands either lost or where replaced in minutes to live players but the ‘broken bots’ if you like and that is what they were for sure lasted for maybe 4 times round or maybe 5 times round ….Now if you think about it, it cant be a bot from outside the company cause no way would someone be able to get 7 bots on one table!
No its got to be inside company bots going into lock down …What they were doing is posting ante’s but not betting (not sitting out either) if you checked they checked but if you bet ANY amount they fold each time 100% now seven bots doing that was freaky……..that why I say pokerstars uses bots for sure and I can prove it by the history from my saved folder ie you can see it actually happen and it freaks you out.
Fulltilt have admitted to useing bots and are actually defending a court case as I speak…..
What does that tell you ………lol
I know they are ALL crooks it is just a matter of when its all going to come down like a house of cards lol
Maybe we can help
Just adding my 2 cents.
)
( This is play chips BTW, but I’d feel bad for the guy with pocket aces if it wasn’t
http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i317/Surge_and_destroy/?action=view¤t=LoL.png
If that’s not rigged, I don’t know what is.
Full Tilt Poker Game #19817613516: Table Cindy (6 max) – $0.05/$0.10 – No Limit Hold’em – 15:40:43 ET – 2010/04/04
Seat 1: Polytoxicomanic ($12.71)
Seat 2: mcpicses ($12.11)
Seat 3: julbong ($21.20)
Seat 4: Cursedcake ($10)
Seat 5: GluCose83 ($4.39)
Seat 6: HelaJolie ($13.21)
mcpicses posts the small blind of $0.05
julbong posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HelaJolie [8h 8c]
GluCose83 folds
HelaJolie raises to $0.40
Polytoxicomanic folds
mcpicses calls $0.35
julbong raises to $1.30
HelaJolie has 15 seconds left to act
HelaJolie calls $0.90
mcpicses calls $0.90
*** FLOP *** [6h 4s 3d]
mcpicses checks
julbong checks
HelaJolie has 15 seconds left to act
HelaJolie has requested TIME
HelaJolie bets $2.93
mcpicses calls $2.93
julbong has 15 seconds left to act
julbong folds
*** TURN *** [6h 4s 3d] [4d]
mcpicses checks
HelaJolie has 15 seconds left to act
HelaJolie has requested TIME
HelaJolie bets $4.15
mcpicses raises to $7.88, and is all in
HelaJolie calls $3.73
mcpicses shows [4h 2h]
HelaJolie shows [8h 8c]
*** RIVER *** [6h 4s 3d 4d] [3c]
got 45k hands on Pt3 to invest, if someone’s interested, please seek contact here…
yep, rigged.
Ive grinded ftp for 2 1/2 years, read every book, reviewed my hands, talked hands with friends, read forums, practiced constantly, and played around 32 hours a week.
I don’t have proof, but I know it is rigged.
For those who say it is not rigged, what proof do you have?
DON’T PLAY ONLINE POKER!!!!!
All sites cheat like I said before there is no law to stop them! Forced action is what it is called and they do that because the bigger pots and bigger rakes and it is to complicated t ohave a different program for tourneys and SNG’s so there are alot of bad beats a couple more then live is expected but it is unreal as to the number of bad beats and like I said before i am scared when I am all in and the other guy has 3 outs or less but when he has a openended flush draw with 2 overs i am quite happy and confident i will win! Does that make any sence? Online poker is good for one thin betting patterns thats it sometimes u get lucky and thats all it is luck and you cash out! Again the real poker pros do not do good online because the true odds do not exist online like they do in real life! and I make really good money real life off the online donks that think they are pro’s it is funnyt as hell they always leave broke but online I always leave broke go figure?
I just asked full tilt poker, lets see if they comment.I go 1 for 4 with pocket aces on full tilt poker. I get bad beats constantly.
Does your Random Number Generation use “Forced Action”?
I would like to know, if your random number generation tries to create exciting games.
No clear answer of “no” means you guys do use the “forced action” technique.
http://rounding.wordpress.com/2008/06/03/full-tilt-leans-towards-big-hands/
Here’s one strange thing that I’ve seen at ftp.
It could be innocent, but it does seem strange to me.
I was sitting at a 9 handed ftp mtt tourney.
There was an observer chatting with one of the players at the table. By the conversation they clearly personally knew each other. The conversation made it seem the player at the table was a young male and the observer was a woman with at least one child. They chatted quite a long time about personal items and about the betting at the table. Then the observer chatted something like “I’ll be there in a minute”. A few seconds later a different player was moved from the table and the observer was sitting at the table. The two people continued to chat.
It was a bit unsettling so I wrote down the observer’s id.
The next day I searched, using ftp’s ‘find player’ feature, for the observer’s id and the response was the id is not in the ftp database.
All I read are stupid bad beat stories. Please stop!!!!!
I like to share my online experience. I can say for a fact that every deposit I have made shows a pattern. Pocker Tracker don’t lie. Being a cash game player I always double my initial deposit in short time. Being tight-agg myself and folding KK pre more then once and still losing?? I decided to review over 300k hands in my database. My graph always shows a positive winrate, then drops quickly. Sites I’ve played and tracked,,, UB,FTP, 3 ipoker skins and they all show the same.
Why is this I asked on many forums, “You play bad” is the only response I got. I proven that you need both skill and luck to win overall online.
AAvs random pair does not win 82%. Not for me, I lose 30.3% of all in P/F showdowns
AA loses to KK 33.9%. In one month AA lost to KK 12x out of 20 PFSDs.
When in situation where I’m 70-80% fave to win, I’ve won 57.9% of those hands. Add that the pots are 40bbs or more. Hands where I have 20bbs or less invested in the pot, I won more then I should. So when I ran my situations with 0-100BBs nothing seemed amissed. ran seperate told me volumes.
Set never ever hit 7.51:1. Ipoker was the closest at flopping 11%, UB,FTP and Stars sets only flop 9% of the times I see that darn flop…
I don’t have a kazillion hands but enough to stop playing NL100 and play 5$ just for fun and adjusting my game.
Stars conveniently got hacked and money gone. After I asked many players if they’d looked through their database and tell me how often sets hit for them and how often they lose when they are favorite to win.
We all need to learn how to beat the RNG, odds and probabilities isn’t the way.
P.S. Daniel Negreanu can’t beat micros either. Tried and failed. If a pro can’t beat micros, who can? lol
I only play sit n go’s on full tilt because it gets to frustrating in low stakes cash games when you continue to get sucked out on and watch your money dwindle. I usually do pretty well in sit n go’s, but then just hit a streak where I can win no matter what. Every time I have a hand dominated, I lose. Every coin flip I lose. Every draw that somebody else has they hit. Every draw that I have miss. It’s unbelievable at times and I am in awe. But the thing that makes me realize how rigged it is, is the FACT that big stacks always win against small stacks. If you end up all in against a big stack, be prepared to lose about 80 percent of the time, no matter what you have. If I have a AK to a big stacks AQ, I honestly feel like the underdog, and the crazy thing is that I lose more than I win. But when I’m the big stack, I feel like I’m going to win an all in no matter what I have. Full tilt obviously lets big stacks win to speed up the tourney so you will buy in again and pay them their fee. I have seen this pattern way too much to ignore.
Hi everyone,
I just got ripped by fulltiltpoker. I started to play with a small amount, played very precautios each hand, changed the tables after winning but still I received a suspicious email from them and got my account suspended. I started to play on small tables and ended to play on 1/2 tables. I won almost $2000 overall, I withdraw 2 times: once $500 and the other time $700. I wanted to play yesterday but I saw my account is suspended and the reason is: chip dump. Because some players lost (I guess their own players) they suspended my account and found this stupid reason. They blocked my balance (around $600) and keep sending me the same stupid answer about they terms and conditions. I asked them to show me some proves, something, anything, I asked them for a phone # to speak with their representatives and haven’t got an answer. Is this possible to steal someone’s money and give him a generic explanation like “chip dump” ? Have you ever had a problem like this? I need some advices please. How am I supposed to solve this?
Here is a beautiful example of a bot or cheating. No matter how good of a player you are you can not beat a cheating system. After 2 years on FTP I closed my account after this hand.
jango12 has 8 seconds left to act ***CHEATER***
jango12 raises to $3.50
firemanJJ1 folds
Easy Tilter folds
Akono folds
THE2OFCLUBS raises to $12 *****ME****
GooRukYONG folds
Togar28 folds
jango12 has 15 seconds left to act
jango12 calls $8.50
*** FLOP *** [8d As 6d]
jango12 has 15 seconds left to act
jango12 bets $16
THE2OFCLUBS raises to $29, and is all in
jango12 calls $13
THE2OFCLUBS shows [Tc Th]
jango12 shows [Ks 3s]
*** TURN *** [8d As 6d] [3d]
*** RIVER *** [8d As 6d 3d] [Kc]
THE2OFCLUBS shows a pair of Tens
jango12 shows two pair, Kings and Threes
jango12 wins the pot ($80.50) with two pair, Kings and Threes
Hey gang,
I have been very critical of FT directly, emailing them frequently and they never respond. Today, I checked my e-mail and I have one from FT security claiming after a “thorough investigation” they have determined that I am involved in a cheaters ring and they have blocked my account. I would not have the first idea of how to cheat them?? When i began playing @FT in the first six months my cash out % was an astounding 29%. I turned a 60 dollar deposit into a couple grand. When i asked for my first cash out (This was a hassle too) afterwhich, my cash out percentage plummeted to 8% in the next four months. Do the math. I virtually went months without any cash outs!!! WTF!!! Did I suddenly turn into a donk and not know how to play??? In the last couple months I have freerolled over 300 on FT, building again without a deposit this time and FT shuts me down claiming I am cheating. We, the people, really need to bring these cocksuckers to justice-they are ruining the great game of poker!!!!!